Talk about drinking the blue milk!

Can't say I agree with the guys leftwing extremist politics but I will praise him for pointing out the moral complexities of all the Star Wars movies. If there's one praise people have of Star Wars that never EVER made any sense to me, it was that "it's a good old fashioned good guys vs. bad guys/white cowboy hat vs. black cowboy hat romp" shit. That's true (on the surface at least) of ANH. Even so, it makes me wonder what ESB those idiots watched.

The prequels take the moral ambiguity to a new level. The Jedi, who spend most of the three movies lying through their teeth even about what time of day it is, are hardly innocent bystanders. Plus, although he uses horrifying means to get there and horrifying means to maintain, Palpatine just wants peace and order for the galaxy.

It might've been Harry Knowles but someone said that the prequels have the better story but the original trilogy has better characters. I tend to agree with that. Then again, the prequels only really work in the context of all six movies while the original trilogy works as a complete story unto itself. Hell, ANH works as a complete story unto itself.

So hmm.

I will agree that Palpatine was easily the best part of the prequels, but that's hardly enough to declare them the superior trilogy.

Maybe if the PT had villains who didn't have stupid juvenile "bad" names, were actually more than one dimensional, and didn't all look like stereotypical "black hat" villains, I might actually take such a claim semi-seriously.

I wonder how many heads you wanted to explode with this :p

I don't know if it really deserves much of a response, but I will. This Tim guy makes a lot of assertions about what the movie really was about and why that makes it ever so clever.

[Warning: Includes politics and more of a response than this guy deserves]

Tim writes:

The difference is that the original trilogy appealed directly to the simplistic moral perspective of an America above reproach and always on the side of right in global geopolitics, whereas the much more subversive prequel trilogy stands in defiant counterpoint to the much more dangerously simplistic moral absolutism of the Age of Bush.

This makes me think of:

There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere.

And then I think about how this wasn't at all shown on screen and what mushy nonsense the crawl was.

And unless you buy into his left wing politics, it's even harder to follow his argument.

Time writes:

The difference is that the original trilogy appealed directly to the simplistic moral perspective of an America above reproach and always on the side of right in global geopolitics, whereas the much more subversive prequel trilogy stands in defiant counterpoint to the much more dangerously simplistic moral absolutism of the Age of Bush.

...

The problem is that the post-9/11 world meant Americans also were forced to identify themselves with the Jedi in the prequel trilogy as well, and we don't like the face we see in the mirror. Let's face it, the Jedi don't exactly come off too swell in the prequel. This time around they are the guys in charge, and it is painful to watch them screw it up, especially when the way they hand over the keys to the Empire is so eerily familiar to a historical era defined by words like "signing statements" and "Patriot Act."

Actually, I thought most people thought the Jedi were pretty awesome. They had lightsabers. There was Kit Fisto. Yoda was confused. And members of the Council were just plain dumb. But as a whole, people who liked the prequels liked the Jedi. They were never 'bad. And they certainly never handed over any keys. They weren't a part of the political process and even confronted Palpatine when Anakin pointed out he was evil.

As for signing statements and the Patriot Act as the greatest evils of our day, Bush's successor has issued signing statements (granted a low number), relied upon one of Bush's signing statements to ignore a law, and has signed the Patriot Act into law again. That's not contradictory to what Tim's saying, but those who buy into Tim's argument are those who will conveniently accept what is done now by Obama. So it begs the question whether what Bush did was offensive to most people or whether people were riled up to believe it was?

I'm not taking a position on that question, just pointing out that he's singing to the (possibly very small) choir and not really making a case to anyone else. The movie did not depict a riled up public with strident voices in the Senate (*sigh* this is how democracy dies, etc hardly qualifies).

Is the evil empire now simmering while the complacent public accepts that a leader can circumvent congress to bomb a foreign nation (Libya, perhaps Syria in the future)? When nobody even thinks about Guantanamo and few complain about targeted killings of Americans abroad for very long? When drone attacks are prevalent. When the government hands over dangerous weapons to drug cartels in Mexico with no intention of tracking them?

You wanna know who handed the keys over in the PT?

It's-a clear desa seperatists made a pact wesa desa Federation du Trade. Senators, dellow felagates. In response to this direct threat to the Republic, mesa propose that the senate give immediatly emergancy powers to the Supreme Chancellor.

So, this guy's argument really isn't resonating with me on any level. The movie doesn't show what he claims it shows. And his depiction of Bush era politics is over-simplistic.

No more alarming scene exists in the entire "Star Wars" canon than the political conversation that takes place in "Attack of the Clones" between Anakin and Amidala when the boy-who-would-be Vader suggests the system is broken and needs to be replaced with something where one person in charge has the power to enforce laws he feels are for the good of the people. Amidala replies, rightfully, that what Anakin is talking about sounds like a dictatorship. And then these all-too-familiar words from Anakin: "Well, if it works."

Realllly??? How about when Anakin slaughters women and children and Amidala shrugs it off as normal? I found that far more alarming that Anakin's glib comment.

Yoda's observations about anger, hate, fear, and suffering are not said lightly; they may be the most prescient words spoken by a movie character in recent memory.

This guy really needs to watch RLM's take on that quote.

Chances are you don't even remember these words of Darth Maul: "Fear is my ally." One can well imagine that slogan scrawled across the office walls of men like Scooter Libby and tattooed across the back of Dick Cheney.

-_- what a compelling observation! If we just imagine these things, it must be true.

I suggest not dividing along political lines for the PT.

^This.

I just found the article hilarious from the perspective of it being a whole new wave of apologist Lucas worship. This line made me wonder if the author is a master troll.

Yoda's observations about anger, hate, fear, and suffering are not said lightly; they may be the most prescient words spoken by a movie character in recent memory.

The attempts to rationalize the prequels and discredit the criticism of them simply being shitty movies never cease to amaze me.

How dare anyone else have an opinion that isn't prequel bashing. Because it's a fact that the prequels are bad, not a subjective opinion. ;)

More people may prefer the original "Star Wars" trilogy, but there is no question that the prequel is a more challenging, illuminating, and superior work of art.

Meesa agree!!  Meesa loves dis statement! 

*steps in a pile of crap*

Aw... Icky icky goo.

Sevb32 said:

How dare anyone else have an opinion that isn't prequel bashing. Because it's a fact that the prequels are bad, not a subjective opinion. ;)

Exactly right. Glad to see you finally figured it out.

Chances are you don't even remember these words of Darth Maul: "Fear is my ally." One can well imagine that slogan scrawled across the office walls of men like Scooter Libby and tattooed across the back of Dick Cheney.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't this line never actually make it into the movie? As I recall, it's a line from the trailer, right?

As loose story concepts I would agree with much of what that article says.

This is why George should have handed the basic story elements to a writer and handed the final script to a better director of actors.

He could then have done what he does best organising the art department, editing action sequences, giving direction to the special effects unit.

There is potential in the concepts of the PT, just as there was potential in the concept of ongoing Special Editions of the original trilogy (not as replacements but as alternate flavours of the already existing films).

George is not the sort of person who should try to do everything.

He should have recognised his weaknesses and only played his strengths.

Instead we have a bizarre set of films with a split personality that wants to be a childish slapstick cartoon while also being a violent political parable.

George hasn't got the chops for either job let alone both at the same time.

Akwat Kbrana said:

Sevb32 said:

How dare anyone else have an opinion that isn't prequel bashing. Because it's a fact that the prequels are bad, not a subjective opinion. ;)

Exactly right. Glad to see you finally figured it out.

 

Chances are you don't even remember these words of Darth Maul: "Fear is my ally." One can well imagine that slogan scrawled across the office walls of men like Scooter Libby and tattooed across the back of Dick Cheney.

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't this line never actually make it into the movie? As I recall, it's a line from the trailer, right?

It's from one of the "tone poem" tv ads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-_1mqA3_tw

SilverWook said:

Akwat Kbrana said:

Sevb32 said:

How dare anyone else have an opinion that isn't prequel bashing. Because it's a fact that the prequels are bad, not a subjective opinion. ;)

Exactly right. Glad to see you finally figured it out.

 

Chances are you don't even remember these words of Darth Maul: "Fear is my ally." One can well imagine that slogan scrawled across the office walls of men like Scooter Libby and tattooed across the back of Dick Cheney.

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't this line never actually make it into the movie? As I recall, it's a line from the trailer, right?

It's from one of the "tone poem" tv ads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-_1mqA3_tw

Huh. So a trailer holds a line more impactful than anything in the OT xD No wonder the chances are we don't remember that line.

It all begs the question why this guy cobbled this article together now. To use a contentious popular culture hook to revive a political narrative?

Bingowings said:

As loose story concepts I would agree with much of what that article says.

This is why George should have handed the basic story elements to a writer and handed the final script to a better director of actors.

He could then have done what he does best organising the art department, editing action sequences, giving direction to the special effects unit.

There is potential in the concepts of the PT, just as there was potential in the concept of ongoing Special Editions of the original trilogy (not as replacements but as alternate flavours of the already existing films).

George is not the sort of person who should try to do everything.

He should have recognised his weaknesses and only played his strengths.

Instead we have a bizarre set of films with a split personality that wants to be a childish slapstick cartoon while also being a violent political parable.

George hasn't got the chops for either job let alone both at the same time.

This exactly.

Even as a moderator on a Star Wars board, I'm not going to read a single line of an article with that as a title.

As I already took one for the team, you aren't missing much. ;)

If this was posted on theforce.net in 2003, I would have at least thought it was original, however misguided. Sadly, I've heard all these fallacies and strawman arguments ad nauseum. It's all a bunch of horseshit. Plus, as someone pointed out, an interesting idea terribly executed is still just something terribly executed. It would be better to watch a bad idea masterfully executed. The only thing the former has going for it is that it might make you think, but all you can think about is how bad it was all done.

Whatever. I guess with the re-release there is one of these amid all the bad reviews. Fun for the fans of the prequels, but I doubt it will sway anyone. People might say "hmm, interesting, I should take a second look," and then after 15 minutes of Episode I will laugh at themselves, turn the movie off and do something more productive with their life.

I haven't read the article in the OP...

SilverWook said:

Akwat Kbrana said:

Sevb32 said:

How dare anyone else have an opinion that isn't prequel bashing. Because it's a fact that the prequels are bad, not a subjective opinion. ;)

Exactly right. Glad to see you finally figured it out.

<span style="font-size: 11px; line-height: 13px;">Chances are you don't even remember these words of Darth Maul: "Fear is my ally." One can well imagine that slogan scrawled across the office walls of men like Scooter Libby and tattooed across the back of Dick Cheney.</span>

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't this line never actually make it into the movie? As I recall, it's a line from the trailer, right?

It's from one of the "tone poem" tv ads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-_1mqA3_tw