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Vader and Dark Empire Emperor Clones?

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A little EU question for everyone here:

1) Did/could Vader have known about the Emperor's Clones as described in Dark Empire?

2) How does that change Vader's actions at the end of RotJ if he knew that he was (most likely) only destroying a clone and not the evil that is the Emperor?

3) What if Vader was hanging out with the Emperor this whole time on the promise that one day he would be ready to force transfer himself to a healthy clone the way the Emperor had been doing?

I think that's it. Mostly #2, though.

Matt

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Originally posted by: xhonzi
A little EU question for everyone here:

1) Did/could Vader have known about the Emperor's Clones as described in Dark Empire?

Possibly. At least, he was probably aware of the Deep Core enclave and his master's continuing research into the Dark Side. He knew Palpatine had an interest in achieving immortality. He may not have known the exact reason for Palpatine cloning himself. (Maybe for some kind of bizarre sex thing?)

On the other hand, the Deep Core is small enough that Palpatine could've populated it while Vader was busy on the rim, or subordinate to the Grand Moffs. I always got the impression that the Deep Core forces were loyal directly to the Emperor, outside the system of Moffs and Vader's shadow. In the event that Vader overthrew Palpatine and took control of the main body of Imperial forces, the Deep Core forces would launch a counterattack; if that was the plan, it would be good to keep it secret from Vader.

2) How does that change Vader's actions at the end of RotJ if he knew that he was (most likely) only destroying a clone and not the evil that is the Emperor?


It doesn't. Under the old continuity, all of Palpatine's transfers up to that point had been done in comfort, in the clone lab on Byss. Palpatine wasn't powerful enough to transfer his spirit from Endor to Byss; he ended up floating through the madness of the Dark Side for nearly a year before the Dark Lords on Korriban threw him a bone and helped him to a clone body. For all he knew, Vader was taking the Emperor out of commission permanently, and knocking out the subconscious influence he had over the Endor taskforce. That's what led to the sudden panic, confusion, and incompetence of the Imperial forces.

Under the new continuity, that was Palpatine's first body anyway. There was no precedent for him taking a new body. And the Endor fleet was coordinated by a Grand Admiral performing battle meditation in the Death Star, so the Emperor's death didn't affect the outcome of the battle.

(There's no clear delineation between old and new continuity here; old is just the original stuff, and new is retcons made over the last few years.)

3) What if Vader was hanging out with the Emperor this whole time on the promise that one day he would be ready to force transfer himself to a healthy clone the way the Emperor had been doing?


Then it was pretty stupid of him to toss the Emperor down an air shaft. When your boss has achieved apotheosis and offers the chance at immortality, you don't throw him down air shafts.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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3) What if Vader was hanging out with the Emperor this whole time on the promise that one day he would be ready to force transfer himself to a healthy clone the way the Emperor had been doing?

Then it was pretty stupid of him to toss the Emperor down an air shaft. When your boss has achieved apotheosis and offers the chance at immortality, you don't throw him down air shafts.


I mostly meant that between the time he becomes Vader (in the suit, more machine than man) and we see him again in A New Hope, that he may have been working towards transferring into a body. I have a problem with Anakin's acceptance of the Dark Side and Vader's allegiance to Palpatine as depicted in RotS. I'm digging here for a potential reason for both of those.

Obviously he's given up on both those things when he gives (bad pun warning) his "master" the shaft.

Matt

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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This was my thought trail on it...

If Anakin knows that the Emperor has an unlimited supply of his own clones that he can transfer into at any time, then it would be one way that the Emperor was so powerful that Vader wouldn't just double cross him right off the bat. And after the whole badly damaged body thing, Vader would be wanting to learn the secret of the cloning and the body switching thing from him. Another reason not to kill him. But then these things get pushed back out of his mind for whatever reason and he stops thinking about trying to overthrow the Emperor until he meets Luke and finds someone else powerful enough to help him.

Anyways, that's not that important, but just how the "shaft scene" changes in this context. I think Vader's redemption is probably the best in all of the Star Wars trilogy and I would hate to introduce any new aspects that would lessen it. So, is Vader's moment less cool if he knows he is only buying a few moments of time for Luke and the Rebellion? If he knows that he has only set the Emperor back a little? He doesn't have the heart to tell Luke just how powerful the Emperor is?

Anyways... I like the idea that the Emperor is trying to achieve immortality in this unnatural way when the Jedi receive immortality just by being Jedi. I don't think it's quite put that way in any of the Dark Empire stories... but the subtext is kind of there.

Matt

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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i thought lucas didnt care about continuity with the eu
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Well, it's not that he doesn't care, it's just that he refuses to allow it to control his story. That's why he has caused so many errors with the EU. They weren't intentional, since he doesn't read it. BUT, as you know, he has made many references and used many elements from the EU as an acknowlegment of his support and respect for it.
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That too. But since he owns all of the elements he rips off, no one questions him.
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I know Lucas doesn't care about EU, but I don't really care about Prequel continuity so I guess it's a fair match. I'm still wondering about what the prequels might have been... Lucas's prequels ruined Star Wars in a lot for me, I was just wondering what impact an alternative prequel story line would have had on the OT as well.

Anyways,
Matt

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!