The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand :: 1 > 2

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miker71's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

I'm with you on the Vader unmasking. After seeing the back of his head in Empire and reading he'd fallen into a molten lava pit after his duel with Kenobi, I was expecting an horrific burns victim. Instead we got a kindly old man. I guess this shows that Lucas thought we could identify with someone not disfigured and more easily "forgive" them in the few minutes before the end of the flick.

From what I know, Marquand was back-seat directed by Lucas.

 

I don't know that Spielberg was up for Jedi ... I do know that Lucas' spat with the unions came (in part) from not crediting anyone at the start of Star Wars. The argument was that he gave himself credit "A Lucasfilm Ltd Production" but no one else until the end-crawl. Utter bunk for an audience, but for people relying on residuals and such, key to getting union rates.(?)

Fang Zei's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

The "Empire of Dreams" documentary from the '04 dvd claims Spielberg was Lucas' first choice to direct Jedi.

Bantha Foodoo's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

I originally expected a big headed alien. When I first saw him he looked like Ray Milland to me.

In an 83 SW documentary Lucas mentioned that people wouldnt or didnt like the "funny old man" but he claimed that that was what was always planned.

I do think the unmasking robbed Darth Vader of his mystique but if he is doing that redemption story it was pretty much necessary.

I think was a little too old though.

 I read somewhere  that David Lynch was asked to direct ROTJ and he turned it down?

 

miker71's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

Ah yes, Lynch! Again as a kid I had no idea at the time but you have prodded my memory that this surfaced on my radar recently - google corroborates

 

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/David-Lynch-On-Refusing-To-Direct-Return-Of-The-Jedi-16071.html

Baronlando's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

Spielberg seems like p.r. baloney that was never seriously going to happen. Howard Kazanjian didn't work on Temple of Doom because it overlapped with Jedi. So how was Spielberg ever going to do it? (never mind E.T. ,Poltergeist and Twilight Zone also overlapped with Jedi)

CO's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

Lucas has repeated time and time again that Star Wars was his baby, and that is why he never asked Spielberg to direct one of the movies.  I always always thought that 'Spielberg to direct Jedi' stuff in Empire of Dreams documentary was a bunch of B.S.

ray_afraid's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

CO said:

Lucas has repeated time and time again that Star Wars was his baby, and that is why he never asked Spielberg to direct one of the movies.  I always always thought that 'Spielberg to direct Jedi' stuff in Empire of Dreams documentary was a bunch of B.S.

Lucas has repeated a lot of B.S. time and time again. It means nothing. And what does SW being his "baby" have anything to do with Spielberg directing or not? Georgy didn't direct Empire, nor was he even on set for most of it's filming. I don't see how him asking Spielberg to direct Jedi is even remotely far fetched.

 

As for the un-masking of Vader, I thought it was brilliant when I was a small child and I still do today. It was a total shocker to find out that Vader was a redeemable human being.

CO's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

ray_afraid said:

 

Lucas has repeated a lot of B.S. time and time again. It means nothing. And what does SW being his "baby" have anything to do with Spielberg directing or not? Georgy didn't direct Empire, nor was he even on set for most of it's filming. I don't see how him asking Spielberg to direct Jedi is even remotely far fetched.

 

 I will have to find the quote, but Lucas was asked when they were filming TPM if Spielberg would direct Episode II & III.  Now I am paraphrasing but he said, "Spielberg has alot of great movies:  Jaws, Jurassic Park, ET, etc, but Star Wars is my baby."

Pretty much Lucas is saying that HE is known for Star Wars, and Spielberg has enough great movies to be a part of  ANOTHER great movie series.

Thats why I found the revelation that Spielberg was going to direct Jedi in the 2004 documentary seemed out of nowhere. 

Baronlando's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

I think Spielberg is the one who has said "star wars is george's baby etc." a few times over the years. It was his polite way of saying he wouldn't have directed one when an interviewer asks about it.

ray_afraid's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

CO said:

 I will have to find the quote, but Lucas was asked when they were filming TPM if Spielberg would direct Episode II & III.  Now I am paraphrasing but he said, "Spielberg has alot of great movies:  Jaws, Jurassic Park, ET, etc, but Star Wars is my baby."

Pretty much Lucas is saying that HE is known for Star Wars, and Spielberg has enough great movies to be a part of  ANOTHER great movie series.

Thats why I found the revelation that Spielberg was going to direct Jedi in the 2004 documentary seemed out of nowhere. 

Ok, maybe George didn't ask Steve to direct one of the prequels, Geoge was in complete control of those atrocities. No outside opinions or steering at all. And we all know how that ended up... But we're talking Jedi.

And why would George want this information in the documentary (and don't fool yourself into thinking he wasn't in control of it's content) if he was running around saying that he never asked Spielberg to do it?

Spielberg saying "Star Wars is Georges baby" makes a lot more sense. It's polite way of saying no.

Then again, George has been caught in so many lies that finding out that the Spielberg to direct Jedi story is false would hardly faze me.

robbottin's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

Didn't Spielberg effectively directed some scene in EPISODE III?

Last edited on November 18, 2010 at 8:07 AM by robbottin
SilverWook's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

Wanting someone and actually asking them to direct are two different things. With Lucas' tussle with the DGA it wasn't about to happen, unless Speilberg left the guild, which would have likely caused problems down the line for Steven and several other projects.

Between directing Raiders, E.T., and Temple of Doom in that time frame, not to mention being executive producer on Gremlins and Poltergeist, (which some people believe he ghost directed to this day) I don't see how he could have ever slotted Jedi in.

Where were you in '77?
miker71's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

I did find this on IMDb trivia-

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086190/trivia?tr0745453

When Steven Spielberg saw Paul Verhoeven's Soldier of Orange (1977) he was deeply impressed. He called Verhoeven to tell him he wanted to get him an American project. Years later Verhoeven heard that Spielberg wanted to bring him up to direct Return of the Jedi. To be sure of his talent, Spielberg organized a viewing of his latest feature film Spetters (1980). Spielberg was shocked by the extremely sexual content and never called him again. Verhoeven later said that he thought Spielberg was afraid the Jedis would break their celibacy under his direction. 

SilverWook's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

Sounds a bit fishy. Richard Marquand's film "Eye of the Needle" has some quite graphic sex and nudity, (not to mention violence) and it was the film Lucas screened before choosing him for Jedi. Plus the whole idea of Jedi being celibate priests didn't really exist at the time.

Of course, George did invent the whole Slave Leia/metal bikini business, so maybe he's less prudish than Steven! ;)

Where were you in '77?
skyjedi2005's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

I am glad Marquand directed Jedi.  I now no longer have an faith in Spielberg since the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull ruined Indiana Jones, and he made a bad remake of war of the worlds, and produced those horrible bayformers films.

This tintin thing he did also has really bad plastic looking cgi animation.

 

Maybe Spielberg in his early days.  But Temple of Doom sucked.  Last Crusade was great.  And so was raiders.  So even in the eighties he had bad bombs like 1941.

 "Always loved Vader's wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin's ghost. What a fucking shame." -Simon Pegg.

skyjedi2005's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

robbottin said:

Didn't Spielberg effectively directed some scene in EPISODE III?

The pre viz of the mustafar duel.  Where they are jumping on droids over the lava.  Horrible crap.  That and nuking the fridge are awful.  Spielberg's tastes really have not matured for the better.

 "Always loved Vader's wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin's ghost. What a fucking shame." -Simon Pegg.

SilverWook's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

I saw a revival screening of TOD a few years ago, and nobody asked for their money back. ;)

Where were you in '77?
bkev's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

Hey, I *like* Temple. Its occasional camp is actually FUNNY, unlike in the other later Indiana Jones movies. Plus, it's like a movie serial in that it's fundamentally unrelated to the previous movie aside from the characters.

TML's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

skyjedi2005 said:

robbottin said:

Didn't Spielberg effectively directed some scene in EPISODE III?

The pre viz of the mustafar duel.  Where they are jumping on droids over the lava.  Horrible crap.  That and nuking the fridge are awful.  Spielberg's tastes really have not matured for the better.

I hate for this thread to become an Indy fight, but why is everyone complaining about the fridge? Remember when the giant tank falls off the cliff in Crusade, yet Indy manages to survive? Indiana Jones films aren't about logic. Now I will admit, I did not care for the CGI monkeys, but I did enjoy the rest of the film.

But everyone has different opinions...

SilverWook's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

Neither are the old cliffhanger serials Indy was inspired by, but few younger people today even know about those.

Mythbusters could settle the whole fridge thing, but I doubt even they could get the amount of TNT needed to simulate a hydrogen bomb detonation! ;)

Where were you in '77?
generalfrevious' avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

I hate the tank vs fridge argument. IMO I could swallow the tank scene in the last crusade easier than the nuked fridge in KOTCS. That was just lazy writing.

Anyways, if Spielberg directed Jedi, it wouldn't have made the film any better than it already was, because Spielberg isn't that great of a director to begin with. He's just a popular director.

Sounding like a broken record since May 2006.

Tobar's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

TML said:

skyjedi2005 said:

robbottin said:

Didn't Spielberg effectively directed some scene in EPISODE III?

The pre viz of the mustafar duel.  Where they are jumping on droids over the lava.  Horrible crap.  That and nuking the fridge are awful.  Spielberg's tastes really have not matured for the better.

I hate for this thread to become an Indy fight, but why is everyone complaining about the fridge? Remember when the giant tank falls off the cliff in Crusade, yet Indy manages to survive? Indiana Jones films aren't about logic. Now I will admit, I did not care for the CGI monkeys, but I did enjoy the rest of the film.

But everyone has different opinions...

He was on top of the tank and rolled off it at the last second and clung to the side of the cliff offscreen. In KOTCS he's thrown out of the center of a NUCLEAR BLAST inside a fridge and flung violently across the desert and then hazily just wanders out. For your example to work he would have to have been inside the tank the entire time and crawled out of it after it crashed to the bottom.

SilverWook's avatar
RE: The unmasking of Vader and Richard Marquand

generalfrevious said:

Anyways, if Spielberg directed Jedi, it wouldn't have made the film any better than it already was, because Spielberg isn't that great of a director to begin with. He's just a popular director.

He wasn't that popular in the wake of 1941. Raiders and E.T. proved he was no one trick pony in Hollywood.

Jedi would have benefited from having Steven direct. Lucas would not have been able to backseat drive him. And Harrison Ford might not have phoned it in.

A fellow named Kubrick apparently thought Steven was a pretty good director. ;)

Where were you in '77?
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