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The next Nolan-led Batman film - my thoughts.

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On the off-chance that it's never come up on here before, I'm a life-long Batman nerd. Yesterday I was having a conversation with a friend of mine (also a Batman nerd) about the next Nolan-led Batman film. We were discussing which villain we'd like to see, how they'd work the character, casting, etc, etc.

My favorite has always been the Riddler. I really dug Frank Gorshin's take when I was a kid, thought Astin was fine too, but thought Jim Carrey was an abomination. One viewing of his scene-chewing was one too many.

Which brings me to this post. I would really dig it if they went with the Riddler. I'd love to see Nolan set the standard, yet again. I also think having a somewhat calmer, less brutal, more cerebral character would be a nice change after The Dark Knight. Sort of a moment to catch our breath.

With that in mind, I decided to try and put together the character the way I would hope they'd go with him. So, this is what I came up with;

A character who would be Wayne's equal in terms of money, intelligence, and possibly public influence. Maybe a wealthy businessman with a chip on his shoulder.

The look; Stylish and sophisticated. Green Armani, question mark tie, green Flat Cap.

The actor; Vincent Cassell. I think he would nail it - he can do intelligent sophistication, and he could certainly have a few scenes where he comes unhinged and we see what drives him.

Anyway, that's my take. My friend's take was totally different. He's not a Riddler fan like me and wants another psychopathic killer styled villain.

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I too had been thinking of what a Nolan Riddler would be like.  To fit in the Nolan universe, I thought that perhaps E. Nigma could be a CSI Rock Star kind of guy.  A guy who has been the king of his own little CSI-Gotham and he starts to get really jealous of the public acclaim that Batman gets for what he considers to "kindergarten sluething."  To prove that Batman couldn't solve some of the tough cases he's had to solve, he would go back through his files and find the hardest ones, and then recreate them.  At first, probably not by taking the lives of any new people... but as Batman IS able to solve the crimes, the Riddler escalates the complexity of the mysteries he expects Batman to solve.

Something like that.  I'm not sure of the definitive origin of the Riddler, but I thought this one was probably "close enough" for a translation into the Nolan 'verse.

At the risk of Johnny Depp being in everything, I heard once that he was being looked at to play the Riddler and I thought he would fit the Nolan'verse pretty well.

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xhonzi said:

A guy who has been the kind of his own little CSI-Gotham and he starts to get really jealous of the public acclaim that Batman gets for what he considers to "kindergarten sluething."  To prove that Batman couldn't solve some of the tough cases he's had to solve, he would go back through his files and find the hardest ones, and then recreate them. 

 

Very nice!

That idea fits in with my chip on his shoulder angle too.

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if Johnny Depp plays the Riddler, I'm not going to see it.   I can't stand him.

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Warbler said:

if Johnny Depp plays the Riddler, I'm not going to see it.   I can't stand him.

 But Depp can play anything! As long as the character struts around, is vaguely feminine, and and gives lots of really wide-eyes takes, Depp can do it!

Vincent Cassel though? I don't think I could handle a French Riddler. A French Tickler maybe, but not a French Riddler.

 

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Don't worry, this isn't a Burton hipster movie.  We won't be getting Depp unless someone who doesn't have a total mancrush on him thinks he can do it.  And personally, if Nolan believes in him, I'd be inclined to myself.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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sorry, I don't care what Nolan thinks of Depp.   Depp as the Riddler is a no go for me.   I think I'd put up with Bush in the white house for 4 more years if it meant that Depp would never make another movie ever again.

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Only thing i am truly glad about is Nolan had enough power to veto 3-D video and will be shooting this on 35mm motion picture film as well as the imax camera in 70mm.

He was also rumored to direct the next superman flick, but supposedly will now only produce it.

He was also rumored to helm the justice league movie, but he has also passed on that.

 

I am glad he finally came forward with a script and a direction, otherwise these stupid suits probably would have hired another director to get the film out in time.

 

I want to see the Joker return with some other classic villains restyled.  Maybe the Penguin and the Riddler.  But after how horrible they were handled in those other batman films, i would not be surprised if the director chooses someone else.  Just like no robin and no catwoman.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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True. Just keep in mind this is still kind of early in Batman's career.

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I really don't want to see a film full of Batman-villains.  The Dark Knight was great because it really got to explore the character of the Joker because he didn't have to sacrifice his screen time.  The later  Batman films of the 80's had so many villains that none got the attention they deserved.  Jack Nicholson was fun as the Joker because he had the time to really do something with the character.  And remember the mess that Spider-man 3 had with its villains?  Who could keep track of it all? 

The Riddler would be awesome, especially if he was the only villain.

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xhonzi said:


I too had been thinking of what a Nolan Riddler would be like.  To fit in the Nolan universe, I thought that perhaps E. Nigma could be a CSI Rock Star kind of guy.  A guy who has been the king of his own little CSI-Gotham and he starts to get really jealous of the public acclaim that Batman gets for what he considers to "kindergarten sluething."  To prove that Batman couldn't solve some of the tough cases he's had to solve, he would go back through his files and find the hardest ones, and then recreate them.  At first, probably not by taking the lives of any new people... but as Batman IS able to solve the crimes, the Riddler escalates the complexity of the mysteries he expects Batman to solve.

Something like that.  I'm not sure of the definitive origin of the Riddler, but I thought this one was probably "close enough" for a translation into the Nolan 'verse.

At the risk of Johnny Depp being in everything, I heard once that he was being looked at to play the Riddler and I thought he would fit the Nolan'verse pretty well.

Can we forward this to Nolan? It fits with his universe but actually answers the question of "Why would a criminal leave clues if he didn't want to get caught?" He wants to be recognized.

However, it would need to fit in with the "Batman killed Harvey Dent and a bunch of other people and is wanted by the police!" angle.

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Sluggo said:

I really don't want to see a film full of Batman-villains.  The Dark Knight was great because it really got to explore the character of the Joker because he didn't have to sacrifice his screen time. 

He might not have had to sacrifice his screen time, but I still think The Dark Night suffered heavily from too many villian syndrom. I felt the whole Two-Face thing was unecessary, didn't do the character of Two-Face justice in his rushed creation and death, and made the film uncomfortably long. Personally, I would have been happier with more Joker screen time, and a shorter run time and no convoluted ending.

I really like the Riddler ideas of both Anchorhead and Xhonzi.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Really?  I felt the opposite, C3PX.  I loved how they handled Two-Face, and I think it's my favorite portrayal of the character ever.  With Joker they had a premade villain who got to do his villain thing the entire movie.  But by making Harvey the secondary villain, they really had a chance to spend the whole movie showing how he got there.  If he had been the only villain, they wouldn't have been able to get away with such a deep story for him.  I wasn't even disappointed that the payoff was so short.  It fit his character and what they'd been building up for that it was still satisfying to me.  It's like I always said:  I was expected to be impressed with The Joker, but it was Harvey who surprisingly stole the show for me.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I felt was ok to have two-face in the movie, and his creation was handled  very well.    But why did they have to kill him off?   They should have left the two-arc at the point where Dent was in the hospital bed mentally turning into Two-Face.   Two-Face could have been the main villain in  the 3rd movie.   Other than that, I think the Dark Knight was great.  I think there should only be 1 villain per movie. 

doubleofive said:

xhonzi said:


I too had been thinking of what a Nolan Riddler would be like.  To fit in the Nolan universe, I thought that perhaps E. Nigma could be a CSI Rock Star kind of guy.  A guy who has been the king of his own little CSI-Gotham and he starts to get really jealous of the public acclaim that Batman gets for what he considers to "kindergarten sluething."  To prove that Batman couldn't solve some of the tough cases he's had to solve, he would go back through his files and find the hardest ones, and then recreate them.  At first, probably not by taking the lives of any new people... but as Batman IS able to solve the crimes, the Riddler escalates the complexity of the mysteries he expects Batman to solve.

Something like that.  I'm not sure of the definitive origin of the Riddler, but I thought this one was probably "close enough" for a translation into the Nolan 'verse.

At the risk of Johnny Depp being in everything, I heard once that he was being looked at to play the Riddler and I thought he would fit the Nolan'verse pretty well.

Can we forward this to Nolan? It fits with his universe but actually answers the question of "Why would a criminal leave clues if he didn't want to get caught?" He wants to be recognized.

However, it would need to fit in with the "Batman killed Harvey Dent and a bunch of other people and is wanted by the police!" angle.

you can forward him everything but this paragraph:

At the risk of Johnny Depp being in everything, I heard once that he was being looked at to play the Riddler and I thought he would fit the Nolan'verse pretty well.

I'd rather have the return of the nipple suit than see Depp in a batman movie.

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Warbler said:

I felt was ok to have two-face in the movie, and his creation was handled  very well.    But why did they have to kill him off?   They should have left the two-arc at the point where Dent was in the hospital bed mentally turning into Two-Face.   Two-Face could have been the main villain in  the 3rd movie.   Other than that, I think the Dark Knight was great.  I think there should only be 1 villain per movie.

Like I said, I'm rather glad they killed him off.  I think his descent into villainy was far more interesting than a Two-Face crime spree would have been.  So it just would have been a let down.  Besides the fact that his objectives had mostly been accomplished at this point.  He was mourning Rachel (oh, and the fact that Harvey actually validated the existence of the character of Rachel Dawes also earned so many points in my book as well) and getting his revenge by giving those responsible a 50/50 chance as well.  What else was there for him to do?  I think if he had taken the next movie solo, he would have overstayed his welcome, so I just love the way they did it in The Dark Knight.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I wouldn't have had him take his revenge in Dark Knight,  I would have saved that for the next movie.  

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C3PX said:

He might not have had to sacrifice his screen time, but I still think The Dark Night suffered heavily from too many villian syndrom. I felt the whole Two-Face thing was unecessary, didn't do the character of Two-Face justice in his rushed creation and death, and made the film uncomfortably long. Personally, I would have been happier with more Joker screen time, and a shorter run time and no convoluted ending.

I really like the Riddler ideas of both Anchorhead and Xhonzi.

 

I'm with C3PX on this one. dark Knight had too much going on and it suffered by being too long and increasingly unfocused toward the end . It seemed to lose it's way about 90 minutes in. One villain at a time, man.

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Gaffer Tape said: I think his descent into villainy was far more interesting than a Two-Face crime spree would have been.  So it just would have been a let down.  Besides the fact that his objectives had mostly been accomplished at this point.  He was mourning Rachel (oh, and the fact that Harvey actually validated the existence of the character of Rachel Dawes also earned so many points in my book as well) and getting his revenge by giving those responsible a 50/50 chance as well.  What else was there for him to do?  I think if he had taken the next movie solo, he would have overstayed his welcome....

 

I agree. He works as a one-film character, with the turn being near the end.

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Here's a couple thoughts

What about Azrael. I crazy ass religious serial-killer / vigalante. Could be fun, with that flaming sword and all. At first it seems he's a lone psycho, but it turns out his religious order is infiltrating all aspects of Gotham City.

How about multi-villains, but just the lightly gimmiccked organized crime themed ones. With the regular criminals all taken out during "The Dark Knight" more freaks come in and start a massive gangland war. Black Mask. Penguin. Tally-Man,  Kobra, El Penitente (he's new). Scarface.

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HotRod said:

TheBoost said:

 

Black Mask. Penguin. Tally-Man,  Kobra, El Penitente (he's new). Scarface.

Who? Crap! Who? Who? Who? & Who???

 Rhas Al Ghul was a "who" when they made "Batman Begins" and that turned out pretty ok.

I think taking a minor villain and 'promoting' them might be better than taking one of the main villains who are just SO comic booky (riddles, freeze rays, sexy cat gimmicks) and trying to "real" them up.

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Is Scarface for real?  Scarface and Two-Face?  What about the "say hello to my little friend" Scarface?

This is just one reason why I just stick to the two Burton films.

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TheBoost said:

Rhas Al Ghul...

Who?

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Seriously though, I like Xhonzi's approach.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em