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Zion
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Hopeless Situation Warrior
.: The Zion DVD Project :.
PROJECT UPDATE:
As some of you already know, I am putting my own personal project on hold while concentrating on the X0 Project. I will be returning to this project in time when the X0 is finished.
OK, due to the ever-increasing amount of questions I'm getting about my project, and the large amount of pm's I've recieved asking me to do so, I've decided to start my own thread.
Basically this thread will be a hub for you to follow my progress and ask any questions that you may have. Please do not post any general comments/questions about bootleg DVD's or preservation in this thread.
I am working on a laserdisc transfer of the 1995 "Faces" THX Star Wars Trilogy.
DVD Technical Specs
• 4 dual-layered discs (the 4th being the special features disc)
• 16:9 Anamorphic Widescreen Video
• Dolby 2.0 Surround
• Stereo PCM Audio
• Isolated music score
• Commentary
• Interactive Motion Menus
• Special Features: Everything included on both the Definitive Collection and "Faces" edition laserdiscs, more if there is interest.
• Custom Case and Disc Artwork (possibly chapter inserts)
• Easter Eggs
Equipment
• Faces Laserdiscs
• Official DVD's (for menu creation and video reference)
• Pioneer CLD-D704 Laserdisc Player
• MSI TV @nywhere Master capture card and Virtual VCR (capturing)
• AVIsynth/VirtualDub (filtering)
• Adobe Premiere Pro (color correction, menus)
• TMPGenc/CCE (encoding)
• Sonic Scenarist (DVD Authoring)
• Adobe After Effects (menus)
• Adobe Photoshop (artwork, menus)
More in-depth info on my progress will be updated on my web site.
Screenshots | Menus | Artwork
In compliance with the forum rules, do not use this thread as a means to offer to purchase my DVD's. Contact me via email or private message if you are interested in acquiring them, or just wait for them to show up on myspleen.net.
UPDATE:
DVD Menu Page has been updated with all sample vids for the intro, main, and options menus.
Discuss.
"Ratio Tile, the wish power are together with you." - Allah Gold, Backstroke of the West
Rebel Rouser
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I am ready for the trials!
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
So... can I buy a set off of you?
I'm kidding! In all seriousness though, I'm glad you've made this thread. Having a sure-fire place to check on the progress of this and MeBeJedi's transfers is nice.
Good luck, and good work!
I'm kidding! In all seriousness though, I'm glad you've made this thread. Having a sure-fire place to check on the progress of this and MeBeJedi's transfers is nice.
Good luck, and good work!
For as much as some people claim to hate what Star Wars has become, they sure seem incapable of shutting up about it.
DanielB
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I am ready for the trials!
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
Why make them anamorphic? That's not preserving the LD's it doesn't do them justice. All it does is alters their presentation, and when you alter something inevitably you loose quality. (That's not a general rule, but it is the rule in this case). You should either make two versions, or no anamorphic version... in my opinion.
Zion
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Hopeless Situation Warrior
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
Good point, however I beg to differ.
The major reason why I'm making these anamorphic is because I'm optimizing them for widescreen televisions. Keeping them in the original 4:3 aspect ratio, a 16:9 TV would have to zoom in to fill the screen. That resize process can be done much better by a computer, which is what happens in converting them to anamorphic. The image looks much better and you don't have to worry about zoom settings. Additionally, most traditional 4:3 TV's don't have good enough image quality to notice any quality loss when it shrinks down the anamorphic video. Besides, this project is about preservation, not optimizing for a dying medium.
The major reason why I'm making these anamorphic is because I'm optimizing them for widescreen televisions. Keeping them in the original 4:3 aspect ratio, a 16:9 TV would have to zoom in to fill the screen. That resize process can be done much better by a computer, which is what happens in converting them to anamorphic. The image looks much better and you don't have to worry about zoom settings. Additionally, most traditional 4:3 TV's don't have good enough image quality to notice any quality loss when it shrinks down the anamorphic video. Besides, this project is about preservation, not optimizing for a dying medium.
"Ratio Tile, the wish power are together with you." - Allah Gold, Backstroke of the West
BadAsh71
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Padawan Learner
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
here, here 
Echo3
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Padawan Learner
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
Why include both PCM and 2.0? If you have PCM... dont you think that having 2.0 would be a little redundant? Just curious...
Zion
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Hopeless Situation Warrior
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
That's just a preference more than anything else. Some of my friends would prefer to have the DD audio just because it's digital even though the compression hinders the quality. Since it is nowhere near the size of the PCM track, I don't mind putting it on there. I may decide to create a DTS track instead. We'll see.
"Ratio Tile, the wish power are together with you." - Allah Gold, Backstroke of the West
BadAsh71
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Padawan Learner
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
Some DVD Players are not even compatible with PCM Audio... I got burned on that a while back doing a 60th Anniversary DVD for my Grandparents only to find out their DVD Player wasn't compatible 
I checked the disc on several of my other DVD Plaerys (I have 5) and it only played on 2
So if you are doing dual-layer and can afford the space then including both is a great idea.
I checked the disc on several of my other DVD Plaerys (I have 5) and it only played on 2
So if you are doing dual-layer and can afford the space then including both is a great idea.
Class316
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Padawan Learner
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
You say you used the Definitive Collection and Faces Laserdiscs [for extras]. What source is the movie footage from?
Also, what's a "rot spot free transfer" that you need to do? (I know what LD rot is).
Also, what's a "rot spot free transfer" that you need to do? (I know what LD rot is).
Zion
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Hopeless Situation Warrior
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
Ash, that's probably why DVD requirements say you have to have a DD track as a minimum. That's a good point, and I'll probably keep that as the primary audio option, unless I do a 5.1 soundtrack.
Class316, the movie footage is from the Faces set. The only thing I'm using the Definitives for now is the bonus materials.
In order to achieve a rot spot free transfer, there is an AVIsynth filter called "TOOT" that will check three separate sources of video pixel by pixel and average the two most similar. So, for instance if I make three captures from three different ANH LD's and on one frame one has a rot spot and the other two don't, the output video will be without that spot. Using this method, I should be able to produce a transfer that is rid of all rot spots.
Class316, the movie footage is from the Faces set. The only thing I'm using the Definitives for now is the bonus materials.
In order to achieve a rot spot free transfer, there is an AVIsynth filter called "TOOT" that will check three separate sources of video pixel by pixel and average the two most similar. So, for instance if I make three captures from three different ANH LD's and on one frame one has a rot spot and the other two don't, the output video will be without that spot. Using this method, I should be able to produce a transfer that is rid of all rot spots.
"Ratio Tile, the wish power are together with you." - Allah Gold, Backstroke of the West
MeBeJedi
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Jedi Master
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
"Some DVD Players are not even compatible with PCM Audio... I got burned on that a while back doing a 60th Anniversary DVD for my Grandparents only to find out their DVD Player wasn't compatible"
Say what?!? PCM is mandatory for DVD players, since DVDs are required to have either a PCM or DD soundtrack. Are you sure your PCM file was good? Did you try playing the PCM file on a different disc?
"So, for instance if I make three captures from three different ANH LD's and on one frame one has a rot spot and the other two don't, the output video will be without that spot. Using this method, I should be able to produce a transfer that is rid of all rot spots."
What if the "spot" is from the laserdisc material itself?
Say what?!? PCM is mandatory for DVD players, since DVDs are required to have either a PCM or DD soundtrack. Are you sure your PCM file was good? Did you try playing the PCM file on a different disc?
"So, for instance if I make three captures from three different ANH LD's and on one frame one has a rot spot and the other two don't, the output video will be without that spot. Using this method, I should be able to produce a transfer that is rid of all rot spots."
What if the "spot" is from the laserdisc material itself?
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.
MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.
JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.
MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.
JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
Obi_Skywalker
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Padawan Learner
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
Zion, I just downloaded and saw your menu...damn good! Keep up the great work.
mistertones
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Padawan Learner
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
Re: PCM & DD ( AC-3 ) - Fwiw, some players have problems with PCM on DVD+/-R ( not pressed discs ), especially if the video data rate exceeds 6 mbps. So it may be worth just getting a good AC-3 encode using an application like A-Pack, and leave it at that...?
Also, will you be encoding progressive, or interlaced ?
Also, will you be encoding progressive, or interlaced ?
BadAsh71
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Padawan Learner
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"Some DVD Players are not even compatible with PCM Audio... I got burned on that a while back doing a 60th Anniversary DVD for my Grandparents only to find out their DVD Player wasn't compatible"
Say what?!? PCM is mandatory for DVD players, since DVDs are required to have either a PCM or DD soundtrack. Are you sure your PCM file was good? Did you try playing the PCM file on a different disc?
"So, for instance if I make three captures from three different ANH LD's and on one frame one has a rot spot and the other two don't, the output video will be without that spot. Using this method, I should be able to produce a transfer that is rid of all rot spots."
What if the "spot" is from the laserdisc material itself?
"Some DVD Players are not even compatible with PCM Audio... I got burned on that a while back doing a 60th Anniversary DVD for my Grandparents only to find out their DVD Player wasn't compatible"
Say what?!? PCM is mandatory for DVD players, since DVDs are required to have either a PCM or DD soundtrack. Are you sure your PCM file was good? Did you try playing the PCM file on a different disc?
"So, for instance if I make three captures from three different ANH LD's and on one frame one has a rot spot and the other two don't, the output video will be without that spot. Using this method, I should be able to produce a transfer that is rid of all rot spots."
What if the "spot" is from the laserdisc material itself?
Not so sure PCM is considered to be mandatory. I used to get a lot of PCM encoded DVDs from a guy I met on eBay and they wouldn't work in my older players. One of my newer DVD Players handled the PCM audio horribly... it just kept skipping. I found that with all of my DVD Players that the XBox was the best at playing the PCM audio source.
Maybe you are right, maybe it is the encoding. All I know is that I was so glad I was not at my Grandparent's 60th Anniversary party when they tried to play the DVD I sent them and the audio kept going in and out. I don't think I could have looked in the eyes of all the people there when that happened. Luckily my brother had sent a DVD with a lot of the material I had done but with Pro-Logic (DS 2.0) sound and it worked great. He saved the day but I still felt like crap.
I think it is hit or miss with DVD Players on their level of PCM support.
Not that I think of it though, I think I should dig out some of my older players and try the TR47 set to see how that works.
PCM is raw, uncompressed audio and audiophiles just love it for music but when it comes to movies, pro-logic or Dolby Surround 2.0 will get you the same level of sound and will be much more compatible with new and legacy players.
Now you have me interested... I'm going to have to check out some pro DVDs to see if PCM is really a "default". I have ripped quite a few DVDs in my days and I am used to seeing DS 2.0 and DD 5.1 tracks but not so sure about PCM... other than music DVDs.
Zion
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Hopeless Situation Warrior
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
I've never heard of PCM being a standard either. I always thought that some form of DD (2.0, 1.0, etc.) was the minimum standard for all dvd's.
Progressive. Don't question it!
What if the "spot" is from the laserdisc material itself?
Then it is a spot which came from the master and will be on all three captures, thus ending up on the output video. In this case, like noise, it will go through filters that will remove most of it, if not remove it completely. Spots like that are much less noticable during playback than big rainbowy laser rot spots.
Also, will you be encoding progressive, or interlaced ?
Then it is a spot which came from the master and will be on all three captures, thus ending up on the output video. In this case, like noise, it will go through filters that will remove most of it, if not remove it completely. Spots like that are much less noticable during playback than big rainbowy laser rot spots.
Also, will you be encoding progressive, or interlaced ?
Progressive. Don't question it!
"Ratio Tile, the wish power are together with you." - Allah Gold, Backstroke of the West
Molly
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U u uwa uwa...
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
When ripping vobs for "Chouhenshin CosPrayers" aka "The Cosmopolitan Prayers" (an anime - these were R2 vobs) we found AC3 2.0 and PCM 2.0 audio tracks. To save bandwidth, my source re-muxed the vobs with only the AC3 before sending.
Moll.
Moll.
"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)
wadetv
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Padawan Learner
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
A 5.1 DTS track would be awesome. Your menu and covers are great as well.
drjimmy526
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Padawan Learner
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
In order to achieve a rot spot free transfer, there is an AVIsynth filter called "TOOT" that will check three separate sources of video pixel by pixel and average the two most similar. So, for instance if I make three captures from three different ANH LD's and on one frame one has a rot spot and the other two don't, the output video will be without that spot. Using this method, I should be able to produce a transfer that is rid of all rot spots.
Got a link for that TOOT filter (google's got nuthin)? I'd like to test it out on some of my own captures.
Zion
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Hopeless Situation Warrior
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
Do a search for it at the doom9 forum. There's an official thread on it there.
"Ratio Tile, the wish power are together with you." - Allah Gold, Backstroke of the West
MeBeJedi
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Jedi Master
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
"Not so sure PCM is considered to be mandatory. I used to get a lot of PCM encoded DVDs from a guy I met on eBay and they wouldn't work in my older players."
But these are not "factory" DVDs that you are talking about. I am referring to actual DVDs from the studios, versus bootlegs of dubious quality. Commercial DVDs must have either a DD or PCM soundtrack, and then any other soundtrack may be added (Such as DTS).
"Then it is a spot which came from the master and will be on all three captures, thus ending up on the output video. In this case, like noise, it will go through filters that will remove most of it, if not remove it completely. Spots like that are much less noticable during playback than big rainbowy laser rot spots."
Okay. I was just curious.
But these are not "factory" DVDs that you are talking about. I am referring to actual DVDs from the studios, versus bootlegs of dubious quality. Commercial DVDs must have either a DD or PCM soundtrack, and then any other soundtrack may be added (Such as DTS).
"Then it is a spot which came from the master and will be on all three captures, thus ending up on the output video. In this case, like noise, it will go through filters that will remove most of it, if not remove it completely. Spots like that are much less noticable during playback than big rainbowy laser rot spots."
Okay. I was just curious.
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.
MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.
JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.
MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.
JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
DanielB
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I am ready for the trials!
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
Zion, because of the limitations of some widescreen TV's you'll let that dictate the quality of the transfers? I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There are DVD Players on the market that will output a 16:9 Anamorphic picture from non-anamorphic sources, people can use them if it's that important to have a 16:9 picture.
Zion
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Hopeless Situation Warrior
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
No matter how the hardware resizes the video - whether it be the TV or the DVD player - it is still inferior to what I can do on my computer. At the very least, I can know what kind of quality to expect on EVERY system I play my DVD's on if they are anamorphic because I have control over how the video gets resized.
"Ratio Tile, the wish power are together with you." - Allah Gold, Backstroke of the West
MeBeJedi
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Jedi Master
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
Gotta agree with zion here...the better the master, the less havoc a display device or player can wreak upon it.
Of course, I'm creating both versions.
Of course, I'm creating both versions.
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.
MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.
JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.
MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.
JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
Zion
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Hopeless Situation Warrior
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
"Ratio Tile, the wish power are together with you." - Allah Gold, Backstroke of the West
Echo3
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Padawan Learner
.:The Zion DVD Project:.
whey zion, itried emailing you through your website link... but they bounce back. I have the faces LDs... IM me if you like. nostromo777 on msn messenger. Or email me at nostromo777@hotmail.com
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.: The Zion DVD Project :.
.: The Zion DVD Project :.