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The Empire Strikes Back is the best Star Wars movie. Or is it?
The Empire Strikes Back is the best Star Wars movie. Or is it? :: 1 < 13 > 15
xhonzi
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of Earth.Akwat Kbrana said:
Oh man, I'm afraid I might be lost; must've taken a wrong turn. Is this the Tex Murphy thread?
Oh, please, let it be so!
IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!
"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005
"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM
"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.
TV's Frink
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Ointment Fly
Akwat Kbrana said:
Oh man, I'm afraid I might be lost; must've taken a wrong turn. Is this the Tex Murphy thread?
It makes me slightly sad that so many people don't get this off-topic joke at which I'm actually literally lol-ing at right now.
DuracellEnergizer
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Ce n'est pas DuracellEnergizerGUESS WHAT, PEOPLE!
That is all.
God doesn't think in terms of black or white - or even shades of gray - but in big, bright, bold hues of blue and orange.
DuracellEnergizer
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Ce n'est pas DuracellEnergizerThis thread's in danger of growing stale. I'm taking it to strange new places!
God doesn't think in terms of black or white - or even shades of gray - but in big, bright, bold hues of blue and orange.
Tyrphanax
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Just a simple man.Kanye West said:
Yo, S_Matt. I'm really happy for you, I'mma let you finish, but The Empire Strikes Back was one of the best movies of all time. One of the best movies of all time!
"Never Sale Your Laserdiscs! Always keep something at hand for compassion!"
Keep Circulating The Tapes
END OF LINE
TV's Frink
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Ointment FlyI gotta hand it to S_Matt. He never even logged back in once.
Put Captain Solo in the Cargo Hold
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Yes it is. It's also one the best movies ever made, and a landmark in science fiction/fantasy.
theprequelsrule
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Empire is a better movie, but Star Wars was the best Star Wars movie.
ray_afraid
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Twisted & Eviltheprequelsrule said:
Empire is a better movie, but Star Wars was the best Star Wars movie.
This all the way.
DuracellEnergizer
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Ce n'est pas DuracellEnergizertheprequelsrule said:
Empire is a better movie, but Star Wars was the best Star Wars movie.
There's something about this statement that makes me feel like I'm seeing an impossible object in word form.
God doesn't think in terms of black or white - or even shades of gray - but in big, bright, bold hues of blue and orange.
timdiggerm
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DuracellEnergizer said:
theprequelsrule said:
Empire is a better movie, but Star Wars was the best Star Wars movie.
There's something about this statement that makes me feel like I'm seeing an impossible object in word form.
He's drawing a distinction between two systems of judgment. By the rules of "What makes a good movie?", Empire is better. By the rules of "What makes a good Star Wars movie?", Star Wars is better.
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda
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legendary but little-known Jedi Mastertimdiggerm said:
By the rules of "What makes a good movie?", Empire is better. By the rules of "What makes a good Star Wars movie?", Star Wars is better.
I disagree strongly. Star Wars is a great movie by any standard, and can be seen by itself standalone. Empire is a feast for the Star Wars fan, however it is rather confusing if you haven't seen Star Wars, and is full of scenes that have nothing to do with the story development (such as the ship landing inside the big creature) that are there just to wow the viewer. You also can't beat Alec Guiness and Peter Cushing as actors, and it is their acting that elevates Star Wars to being a great all time movie, alongside Citizen Kane, Casablanca, and others. What a joy it must have been to assemble their scenes.
theprequelsrule
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Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
timdiggerm said:
By the rules of "What makes a good movie?", Empire is better. By the rules of "What makes a good Star Wars movie?", Star Wars is better.
I disagree strongly. Star Wars is a great movie by any standard, and can be seen by itself standalone. Empire is a feast for the Star Wars fan, however it is rather confusing if you haven't seen Star Wars, and is full of scenes that have nothing to do with the story development (such as the ship landing inside the big creature) that are there just to wow the viewer. You also can't beat Alec Guiness and Peter Cushing as actors, and it is their acting that elevates Star Wars to being a great all time movie, alongside Citizen Kane, Casablanca, and others. What a joy it must have been to assemble their scenes.
These are good points.
I love the unrestrained, unapologetic tone of Star Wars. And you cannot top Star Wars for pacing. It is the best paced film of all time (that I have seen), with the possible exception of Seven Samurai. Good work Marcia! I must admit, I kind of understand what the young kids mean when they say Empire is boring. The middle act does drag, especially after you have seen it dozens of times. It is well done, but a little slow. The hole "trapped in a giant space worm" segment does seem to be filler.
DuracellEnergizer
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Ce n'est pas DuracellEnergizertimdiggerm said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
theprequelsrule said:
Empire is a better movie, but Star Wars was the best Star Wars movie.
There's something about this statement that makes me feel like I'm seeing an impossible object in word form.
He's drawing a distinction between two systems of judgment. By the rules of "What makes a good movie?", Empire is better. By the rules of "What makes a good Star Wars movie?", Star Wars is better.
FWIW, I was trying to pull a Frinkism.
God doesn't think in terms of black or white - or even shades of gray - but in big, bright, bold hues of blue and orange.
twooffour
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Um... seems to me the other way round.
Star Wars is the well-rounded, compact space adventure... Empire now builds on the same universe and makes a stronger impact, making the first pale in a sense.
TV's Frink
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Ointment FlyDuracellEnergizer said:
FWIW, I was trying to pull a Frinkism.
Not as easy as it looks, eh?
;-)
TV's Frink
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Ointment Fly
theprequelsrule
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TV's Frink said:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/empire-strikes-back-too-good/
*Yawns* Another guy splooging all over Empire.
Most arguments for the superiority of Empire (as a Star Wars film), by internet bozos, tend to come down to this:
Empire has to be the best Star Wars film, cause it's the darkest, and like, when shit is dark it is serious and shit, you know? And when the shit is serious it is better than shit that isn't ya' know?
Now, there are articulate and plausible arguments that can be made in Empire's favour of course. Many of them have been made on the OT.com forums. I was firmly in the "Empire is the best" camp for over a decade - back when I really took Star Wars seriously. I still love the OOT as much as ever, but no longer take it seriously. Maybe I love it more, now that I don't take it seriously.
TV's Frink
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Ointment FlyS_Matt said:
You know what, fuck this forum. You're a bunch of jerkoffs.
Cheers everyone.
I guess he meant it.
stretch009
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I prefer Star Wars over Empire. The fact that 3PO, in Empire, is almost as annoying as Jar Jar ruined any chance of it being my favorite of the OT.
The changes that George Lucas has made over the years to Star Wars is the equivalent of someone keying your car. On an intellectual level, you know that the car still works, and its only marred a fraction of a percent of the paintjob. On an emotional level, every time you see it, it's all you can focus on, and it makes you want to rip someone's face off.
Bingowings
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Magister Pontifex Maximusstretch009 said:
I prefer Star Wars over Empire. The fact that 3PO, in Empire, is almost as annoying as Jar Jar ruined any chance of it being my favorite of the OT.
WRONG.
;-)
Threepio annoys the characters in ESB that's not the same as annoying the audience.
He annoyed this audience member much more in ROTJ (I felt too sorry for his wounded dignity in the PT to be annoyed by him).
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Bobocop
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Keeper of the Taco Sandwichtheprequelsrule said:
The whole "trapped in a giant space worm" segment does seem to be filler
I don't think it was exactly filler. It did serve the purpose of putting our heroes on the run again rather than allowing them to stay in hiding. However, there had to have been less silly ways of accomplishing it that would have been more plausible even within the silliness of the Star Wars universe.
Empire is still my favourite movie of all time, and its ending is my second favourite of any movie ending (second only to Back to the Future II), but despite personal preference I'd dare say that Star Wars is indeed a better film. It's just fun and uplifting, not taking itself too seriously but never stooping to the goofiness of the prequels.
Star wars was intended to be a fun, feelgood adventure story, standing apart in a time of dark serious films. And then its sequel ended up being more dark and serious. So in a way, Empire sort of betrayed the mission of the original film. But as I said, it is still my personal favourite and an awesome movie that did outshine its predecessor in terms of visual splendor and, in my opinion, music (and Yoda was an amazing achievement)
stretch009
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Bingowings said:
stretch009 said:
I prefer Star Wars over Empire. The fact that 3PO, in Empire, is almost as annoying as Jar Jar ruined any chance of it being my favorite of the OT.
WRONG.
;-)
Threepio annoys the characters in ESB that's not the same as annoying the audience.
He annoyed this audience member much more in ROTJ (I felt too sorry for his wounded dignity in the PT to be annoyed by him).
Well for me it's in Empire that 3PO annoys me the most. I've never really looked for it it just jumped out at me in Empire. Now, after your post I'm going to look for the annoying 3PO in ROTJ.
The changes that George Lucas has made over the years to Star Wars is the equivalent of someone keying your car. On an intellectual level, you know that the car still works, and its only marred a fraction of a percent of the paintjob. On an emotional level, every time you see it, it's all you can focus on, and it makes you want to rip someone's face off.
SilverWook
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I am ready for the trials!IIRC, the radio drama invented a reason why Threepio was so annoying in ESB.
In hindsight, Empire is nowhere near as dark as say, Episode III. The fun is still there if you look for it. The audience was three years older, and a lot of imitators had come and gone in that period.
The pressure was on the filmmakers to deliver a story that built on the first, but not rehash it as many sequels to other 70's blockbusters ultimately did. That's a trap that even Jedi arguably falls into at times.
Bingowings
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Magister Pontifex MaximusI love ESB Threepio.
He is right all the time and ignored all the time but when he sees the stormtroopers at the city his first thought is to warn the others.
Han and Leia are far more annoying.
Threepio was right about the hyperdrive and Lando too.
Lando poor guy was over a barrel and could only help when he did.
Stupid Leia letting stupid Chewie choke him doesn't help much.
In ROTJ he is Android Obvious stealing Ric's thunder at every turn.
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- Anál nathrach,
- orth’ bháis’s bethad,
- do chél dénmha
The Empire Strikes Back is the best Star Wars movie. Or is it?