Anakin didn't know Palpatine was "trying to kill Padme for 10 years". There was never talk about "killing the queen" in TPM aside from something Qui-Gon said, and the assassination attempt was never shown to have been ordered by Palpatine - Nute Gunray made the demand, the Dooku agreed to execute it.

Palpatine obviously knew it was happening, but we're not told at any point that he had already planned at that moment for her and Anakin to fall in love - and that's the real problem. It's not that Sidious is dumb, we just have no idea what he does and wants at any given point - I guess he does some sort of combination of Xanatos/Batman Gambit and Indy Ploy, but we're never told where the one ends and the other begins, and THAT's a sign of piss-poor writing (although it could've been brilliant ambiguity in a different scenario).

At any rate, Anakin doesn't know it at the time. He might've gotten a clue as soon as he's ordered to go kill the Separatist leaders, but again, never brought up anywhere. Is the "Sith lord who manipulates the senate" ever established as the Separatist overlord by the good guys?

 

 

He goes over to Palpatine's side as soon as he kills Windu - he probably realizes he's fucked himself over with the Jedi after that and there's no going back, and now he has the chance to save Padme - so he sees no other possibility than to join Palpatine.

Prior to that, there was a short conflict in him when he learned that Palpatine was the evil Sith Lord, between having him arrested, or using him to save Padmé; first he went with the former, then after that silent tower scene, changed his mind.

Make sense. Where the film failed was establishing Anakin's friendship with Palpatine and distrust with the Jedi better, so that when he decided to trust Palpatine on the Jedi's "betrayal", it came off as actually believable, not a completely random ass-pull plot device.

 

 

Palpatine only mentioned a LEGEND about some Sith lord who once could save people from death - then when he was getted face-fried, he kinda said "I have the power to save your wife from dying" - could that be construed (by Anakin) as a desperate hyperbole? I dunno. At any rate, when things have calmed down and Anakin knees before him, Palpatine basically tells the same story from before - one has discovered the secret a long time ago, and now they can try and figure it out again.

 

Whether his face got force-fried, or he let it happen on purpose, is left intentionally unambiguous, so you have no way of saying that "there's no way he could've done it on purpose".

When he got force-pushed by Yoda and showed his pants for a brief moment, I always thought it was supposed to hint at the Emperor's "vulnerability" and the fact that there's still that "man behind the curtain" of his theatralic self-display. No debate, that shot has a huge fat NARM written all over it :D

 

 

So yea, you compare the old movies to literary classics with lengthy, complex language, and you don't even understand the prequels enough to criticize these huge clusterfucks. Hey, dude... time to stop arguing for a while, okay? Time to RETIRE! You know... hang up that ooool'... hat...

WhatsMyName said:

Who u talking to? Me or him?

And yes, all good points.

And, i don't think we can actually criticize the writing of Sidious do to the fact that he is set up to be a mysterious figure in star wars. We don't know where he came from, what he plans, how he does what he does and how he became a Sith in the first place.

 

I was debunking his points, so to him obviously ;)

They could've easily made a plot where Sidious plans out the political intrigue in ways that aren't directly shown but are fairly understandable, and then Anakin does something to impress him and he seduces him or whatever... the way they did it, with him POSSIBLY planning EVERYTHING ahead incl. Anakin's birth, him falling in love with Padme on the Naboo trip, the pregnancy threat, and so on, I don't see how that can't be criticized.

When writing a story, choosing certain kinds of narrative forms, or tropes, will always result in heightened difficulty and risk of cheapening the quality.

Including a mysteriously working "higher power" that "guides" the heroes and may step in at critical or trivial moments? Risk - you can use that to excuse any plot hole or questionabl action. Any situation of tension can be questioned by bringing up the lack of the power's intervention.

Over-powered main character, or villain? Self-explanatory. Success = whatever, he's stronger than everyone. Failure or tension = um that feels contrived.

Omniscient chessmaster "behind it all"? It happened because see where it led the story. He knew it all along. Failure? Well, can't calculate EVERYTHING ahead, canya? Stuff happens.

Unreliable narrator? Again, just add a lot of confusion and you can excuse anything that doesn't fit in as lies, or hallucinations. Easy. But the stuff that fits in, that's justified, because see, it was part of the narrator's story!

 

Lucas took that risk with the PT by making the Emperor's scheme this chessmaster gambit - and fell flat on his face.

WhatsMyName said:

My take on it, is that Anakin wasn't one his mind till after the end of TPM.

He was trying to find ways to overwhelm the Jedi, Invasion of Naboo making it legal. Which this is what i think how he originally intended to be the beginning of the end for the Jedi.

Once Anakin showed up and saw his potential, whether he's heard of the "Prophecy" or not, he knew he'd be a powerful tool for him. I don't think he had a specific plan to turn him. I do think it was his goal.

Well, Palpatine sure was impressed with a kid accidentally blowing up... oh wait, of course... Anakin was guided by the force.

Yea, you know, it could work... I mean, he kinda does imply in ROTS that he was behind the inoculate conception, but only very subtly.

Maybe he did an "Indy Ploy" with Anakin? Like, "hey, Padmé needs excuse protectors, how about I bring Anakin into the scene"? But then he's like "ahhh, hehehehehe". After that, lots of convenient things started happening - I guess Palpatine got pretty lucky.

 

I don't see anything to back up your Naboo theory. He wanted to invade or control the planet. Next? Nothing in the movies tells anything about it. Apparently, it SOMEHOW contirbutes to the Separatist movement (TF got pissed off and so on), and it gets Palpatine into chancellor position (could've waited a few years for reelection if he could manipulate votes, eh?). What you said is pretty much pulled out of the thin air rip.

Just wonderin', how would that be supposed to go down? Palpatine like needed an army the Jedi trusted while fighting in a giant galactic war so they could assassinated in the middle of the fight all at once, right? How was the Naboo thing going to lead to that?

But they'd introduce the Clones at some stage, right? Basically, you mean that instead of the "Separatist threat", Plan A was "a shitload of planets gets legally invaded" threat? Hey, you know, it's a possibility. I can't find anything in TPM that really contradicts that. Or, maybe he thought that'd make systems want to leave the Republic, right... but that kidna happened anyway. I think ultimately this only showcases how piss-poorly these plots are written - so little information is given on important plot points like the villains' plans or motivations, the Trade Federation, the Separatists, Grievous, etc., you can sometimes read completely outlandish theories into it and there would be nothing in the film to really contradict that.

Just noticed you posted the exact same thread at the RedLetter Media forun... heh. You're "sexyloser111!11", right?

But some things do. Some do.