Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?) :: 1 < 9 > 14

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TServo2049's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

It's just the YouTube sample.

negative1's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

TServo2049 said:

It's just the YouTube sample.

 exactly.

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negative1's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

more from the 8mm

scene 10/18

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scene 11/18

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scene 12/18

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Last edited on March 9, 2012 at 7:43 AM by negative1

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negative1's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

here are more scenes from the super 8.

scene 13/18

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scene 14/18

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scene 15/18

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Last edited on March 9, 2012 at 7:02 PM by negative1

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Asaki's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

Hey Negative1, I was just skimming through Puggo's 8mm Digests, and noticed that in Empire, the dark underbelly of the Star Destroyer is in there like you guys described of the 35mm.

Just thought you might like to know.

To help the analysis further, take a look at these close ups of Obi-Wan's beard -- STENDEC

negative1's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

Asaki said:

Hey Negative1, I was just skimming through Puggo's 8mm Digests, and noticed that in Empire, the dark underbelly of the Star Destroyer is in there like you guys described of the 35mm.

Just thought you might like to know.

yeah,  saw that awhile ago.

the 8mm and 16mm versions are

my favorite ones.

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negative1's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

the last few scenes from the 8mm..

scene 16/18

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scene 17/18

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scene 18/18

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negative1's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

msycamore said:

A very late reply, I must have missed your post and completely forgot about this ;) Anyway, this was the picture I was talking about:

And you're right, now when I've seen the Japanese Special Collection transfer recently it is more close to it in color than the "GOUT." But I don't know if this picture is any true representation of it's original cinematography and colortiming, I just got very nostalgic when I saw this photo and thought to myself, this is how it's supposed to look. But I guess we'll never know... 

also the Canyon scene with Artoo being captured is very bright compared to the "GOUT" release.       

 ok, here's the frame.. again uncorrected color..

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msycamore's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

It have since been discovered that the bright sunset picture where you quote me is a promo pic of the '97 Special Edition. It was also used in Rinzler's making of book.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

TServo2049's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

More ruminations on the 70mm film cells. Here is a frame that looks too yellow-green:

I noticed that the colors of the packaging (cropped out here) seemed off compared to another photo under natural light, so I began adjusting the image - reducing the contrast, trying to fix the white-balance. Here are two attempts:

Seems closer to me - I still think that these cells have more accurate color than we've assumed, but those very greenish images on Jedi1.net just weren't scanned or balanced right.

The lack of sound striping on these cells makes me wonder about the origin of the 70mm element used to make them. ESB and ROTJ are striped; most of the ESB cells seem to come from a low-fade copy, while ROTJ is definitely not low-fade. But as I said before, the SW cells have no soundtrack on them - you can clearly see 2.5 inches of blank on the left and right of the sprocket holes. I don't think the striping deteriorated/flaked off; there's no visible evidence of it ever having been striped at all.

The packaging copy says they are "hand-cut from a master print taken from the original internegative" - I wonder if they had to make a new 70mm print of SW just for these cells, or if they had an un-soundtracked 70mm print with relatively intact color just lying around. The world may never know...

Last edited on March 13, 2012 at 5:31 PM by TServo2049
negative1's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

TServo2049 said:

More ruminations on the 70mm film cells. Here is a frame that looks too yellow-green:

 

here's a very rough version from our red reel,

with the red taken out..

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TServo2049's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

The fact that it was easy to correct the Jedi1 image seems to affirm my theory that these cells actually have more accurate color than it seems from the Jedi1 images. As I said before, I think something must have happened with the scans. That yellow-green one I tried to correct a couple posts above was actually a snapshot from eBay; the photos I've seen on eBay often feel more vibrant than the Jedi1 scans.

negative1's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

msycamore said:

I tracked down this comparison from the The XØ Project thread, there really is a huge difference.

here are the two very dark frames with luke and c3po

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negative1's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

Red5 said:

These two Senator theatre pictures seems to have been taken with the exact same exposure settings.

The R2D2 canyon shot seems to have more or less the same brightness level as the GOUT but the shot with Luke looking at the sunset is clearly much brighter and with higher contrast.

The question remain though if it was a 'deliberate creative decision' to make the sunset appear darker in the GOUT (1993 telecine) or simply the effect of the colourist trying to hide the defects from a noisy and faded print, which is what I tend to believe.

 

here is our version:

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negative1's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

negative1 said:

here are some

images from a screen

showing the 8mm derann

star wars print:

NOTE: this print was sealed up until

a few days ago, so should be in near mint condition

====================

 

 

here is our version of it:

--


 

 

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TServo2049's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

Someone's offering a flat 16mm print of ROTJ on eBay. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/16MM-FEATURE-FILM-RETURN-OF-THE-JEDI-THEATRICAL-LPP-ESTAR-PRINT-/190651839704?pt=US_Film&hash=item2c63bc34d8

It's basically useless for preservation, since it's cropped, but it's still interesting because not much thought is given to the original color timing of Jedi. I've always assumed that ROTJ had the most consistent color over the years; do these images look different from how the film looked on video?

Last edited on March 14, 2012 at 4:34 AM by TServo2049
negative1's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

TServo2049 said:

Someone's offering a flat 16mm print of ROTJ on eBay. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/16MM-FEATURE-FILM-RETURN-OF-THE-JEDI-THEATRICAL-LPP-ESTAR-PRINT-/190651839704?pt=US_Film&hash=item2c63bc34d8

It's basically useless for preservation, since it's cropped, but it's still interesting because not much thought is given to the original color timing of Jedi. I've always assumed that ROTJ had the most consistent color over the years; do these images look different from how the film looked on video?

 here's pictures from that print:

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msycamore's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

Maybe these have been posted here already?

35mm

70mm

They are taken from in70mm.com btw.

Whoops! wrong film. ;)

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

negative1's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

these are from another super 8mm.

some are red, and others have the

color still in them:

==========================

 

 

 

 

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Last edited on March 17, 2012 at 2:45 AM by negative1

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negative1's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

msycamore said:

Maybe these have been posted here already?

35mm

70mm

They are taken from in70mm.com btw.

 here's ours:

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snicker's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

Beautiful.

negative1's avatar
RE: Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?)

snicker said:

Beautiful.

 i agree.

great work harmy.

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