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**RUMOR** Original theatrical cut of the OT to be released on blu ray!! — Page 7

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To be honest, I've seen so much Star Wars bonus material, that I wouldn't really need to see more. What I'd love to see on a hypothetical OOT set would be a detailed documentary about the restoration.

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lovelikewinter said:

My perfect Star Wars Trilogy

Star Wars

1977 and 1981 crawls via seamless breaching

70mm, Stereo and Mono mixes

Deleted Scenes

Trailers

The Making of Star Wars Vintage Doc

Cantina Drunk Driving PSA

The Star Wars Holiday Special (SD)

The Empire Strikes Back

Deleted and extended scenes

Trailers

SFX: Making of ESB

Mark Hamil on the Muppet Show

Ralph McQuarrie Tribute

Return of the Jedi

Deleted and Extended Scenes

Trailers

Classic Creatures: Return of the Jedi

Lapti Nek music video

C-3PO and R2-D2 on Sesame Street

From the Vaults

Empire of Dreams

From Star Wars to Jedi

Lucas VHS interview

Previous DVD extras

Then the Ewok Films on a separate Blu-Ray in HD.  

 

For ROTJ, I'd like to see the 1983 and 1997 endings via seamless branching and there may have been separate 70mm and 35mm mixes for ESB.

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darklordoftech said:

For ROTJ, I'd like to see the 1983 and 1997 endingd via seamless branching and there may have been separate 70mm and 35mm mixes for ESB.

 That would negate the point of having a true theatrical release. There will never be a compromise cut of the trilogy. What I would like to see, but know will never happen, is a set that contains the OOT alongside a new "final cut" of the films. These would be essentially the 2011 versions, but fixing the inconsistencies created from various SE releases (namely, missing effects on cloud city), and possibly updating the CGI. That would provide a decent amount of material for a fan edit, as well as a sort of compromise for George Lucas. 

And I for one am the exact type of sucker who would shell out like $200 for a complete boxed set with every version of all the films (PT included) with a ton of special features. 

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Harmy said:

[snip] What I'd love to see on a hypothetical OOT set would be a detailed documentary about the restoration.

 ^^^This

If your crop is water, what, exactly, would you dust your crops with?

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TV's Frink said:

I was able to figure it out, and I'm 87 years old.

But not everyone has a wisdom of a 87 years old.

真実

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Harmy said:

What I'd love to see on a hypothetical OOT set would be a detailed documentary about the restoration.

 Agreed, as well.  I actually find the restoration of classic films very interesting in general, but it would be especially cool to see the process done for a STAR WARS OOT boxset.

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hope all is well with everyone.

Its been a crazy summer - starting with poor Harrison's injury, all the Episode VII rumors and excitement - albeit very cautious-over the possibility of an OOT blu ray release.

kind of exasperating that the rumors of an OOT blu ray release are just that.  I do have to say that the ownership/distribution rights and issues again have me confused.

anyway, as far as what I want - Im probably repeating myself, but its broken down 2 ways:

1) Preservation and archiving for historical purposes:  

At the minimum: the fully restored 1977, 1980, 1983 prints from each respective movie.  Thats what actually was seen when first theatrically released.  Both the physical film format and a digital format that matches as close to fidelity of said film format.  As technology advances, a new digital copy is created.  This is what should be in all national film archives like BFI and Library of Congress.  As I get older, this becomes more important.  A 1981 version should be its own archive seperate from 1977.

2) Blu Ray:

Content-wise, I' be ok with a remastered 1981 that includes the Episode IV opening crawl.  The source has to be scanned at highest resolution available.  I guess a scan of an IP can work - need to go back and see what the pro's and con's are.  It has to be proper - i never really understood and noticed what DNR was until I saw a TPM blu ray.  it would be horrible if this happened to OOT.  :O

For the audio, a new 7.1 HD Dolby/DTS mix would be ok AS LONG AS the original 70mm and stereo mix (remastered and lossless) are included.  I have a few blu rays that have new modern mixes and its dissapointing.  The Terminator, for example, its almost as if they just took the sound design and cut it in half so half the sound is in back speakers and the other half is front speakers.  It sounds terrible. 

As for 1997 - not interested.  only reason I could see to include is that it was theatrically released.

As for extras - I like Harmy's idea of a restoration feature.  I am curious how they do this stuff.  I guess it comes from living in a hundred year old condomunium thats in need of serious restoration and maintenance :D

I wouldnt be interested in more 'making of' documentaries that are sanctioned by LFL.  Part of it being this is the most storied catalog in movie history and we know everything.  But the most important reason being that theres a huge amount of dishonesty.  you cannot take GL's commentary seriously because he is making crap up.  The 1995 interviews with Leonard Maltin are now a joke. 

ok enough of that....dont want my first post in almost 2 years to be a rant :P 

I could be interested in another documentary if it was like the great The Shark is Still Working.  This was one of the best doc's I had seen and was very engrossing.  Or that You Will Believe Superman documentary that was fun and candid.  and Harmy, Adywan, Zombie need to make themselves available for interviews ;)

you know what would be helpful - if Disney/LFL cannot comment on an OOT release, at least answer some questions that would provide a roadmap of contingencies that need to be cleared in order for a home video release to be completed.  Or any official Home video distribution subject matter expert.

[sigh] this movie is almost 40 years old...

click here if lack of OOT got you down

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Whatever happens, I'm certain that we'll end up with something other than the 2011 versions. Is Lucas really going to walk into Iger's or Kennedy's office and say, "Vader MUST say no"?

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darklordoftech said:

Whatever happens, I'm certain that we'll end up with something other than the 2011 versions. Is Lucas really going to walk into Iger's or Kennedy's office and say, "Vader MUST say no"?

 Kennedy KNOWS. Let's hope she acts!

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I noticed, that Mike V. has been kind of silent lately and doesn't comment on this whole situation. Is it possible, that Disney already approached him and he's actually working on the restoration for them? That would be awesome.

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Harmy said:

I noticed, that Mike V. has been kind of silent lately and doesn't comment on this whole situation. Is it possible, that Disney already approached him and he's actually working on the restoration for them? That would be awesome.

 I PM'ed him when the comicbook.com news broke, he replied that he had been getting forwarded that story all day long. While he hoped it was true that Disney was doing this, he had no confirmation at that time. I don't mean to be speaking for someone else, but perhaps he will chime in with more detail.

If your crop is water, what, exactly, would you dust your crops with?

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Maybe he's not allowed to reveal anything, because with his connections, if something like this was actually happening, I doubt he wouldn't know about it.

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Oh crikey, for people thinking there's any chance they'll release 97 versions in HD, or that they're just as in demand or legitimate as releasing the original versions...just forget about it. Those are gone forever. Hold on to your VHS tapes b/c that's probably the only way you're going to see them (absent Harmy's version). There's like 3 people who think the world needs the 97 versions on Blu Ray, and they all post here.

That's not to disparage those versions, IMO they're the least offensive of the SE's, all things being equal I'd love to see every version of Star Wars in HD ala a Blade Runner set.  But I doubt that's going to happen. At this point, since the 97 SE's are not the original versions nor George's final, "preferred versions" they are at most a historical footnote.  Don't get me wrong, I understand the sentimental appeal of them, you either grew up with Star Wars and were thrilled at seeing it on the big screen again, or you were experiencing it on the big screen for the very first time.  So I get that. But it was also the beginning of all the bad stuff that happened to these movies.  It's something stuck in between the cultural significant films the originals were and the abominations the later SE's became. 

Just give me the pre 97 films (I'm OK with the 81 crawl) with a full restoration (hello Robert Harris) without excessive DVNR and colours that match the previous home video releases (at a minimum)*, and original audio in HD and I'll be happy....once they do that as far as I'm concerned they can add as many audio tracks as they'd like and release the old SE's and create new ones to their hearts content....I even promise to buy them.

*EDIT: I'd prefer a colour timing that matches the original theatrical releases, of course but I don't even know if anyone at Lucasfilm or Disney even knows what the films looked like back then anymore.

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Nick66 said:

There's like 3 people who think the world needs the 97 versions on Blu Ray, and they all post here.

 Exactly what I've been trying to say.  Thank you.

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Nick66 said:

Just give me the pre 97 films (I'm OK with the 81 crawl) with a full restoration (hello Robert Harris) without excessive DVNR and colours that match the previous home video releases (at a minimum)*, and original audio in HD and I'll be happy....once they do that as far as I'm concerned they can add as many audio tracks as they'd like and release the old SE's and create new ones to their hearts content....I even promise to buy them.

*EDIT: I'd prefer a colour timing that matches the original theatrical releases, of course but I don't even know if anyone at Lucasfilm or Disney even knows what the films looked like back then anymore.

In the binary sunset scene, light pink for distance shots and red for the close-up are musts.

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Nick66 said:

Oh crikey, for people thinking there's any chance they'll release 97 versions in HD, or that they just as in demand or legitimate as releasing the original versions...just forget about it.

I am a realist. I don't expect them to ever release 1997 as a stand alone. I am just hoping they may release them together with theatrical.

And I as I explained already, I am aware that there is a few people who want 1997 compared to those who want theatrical. But even though much more people specifically demand theatrical release, I believe it is still is not that many that would make the thing extremely profitable. If they just somehow released 2011 again, probably more people would buy that and they would literally have not expenses with it. A lot of people who buy Star Wars releases probably don't even know/care what exactly they are buying.

It is a stretch to take an average person from OT.com and generalise it to all who saw the films in theatres. I know two people who saw the films in theatres and fit the "don't know/don't care" category.

Nick66 said:

There's like 3 people who think the world needs the 97 versions on Blu Ray, and they all post here.

Who are those 3 people? I only think that I need it.

真実

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Nick66 said:

Just give me the pre 97 films (I'm OK with the 81 crawl) with a full restoration (hello Robert Harris) without excessive DVNR and colours that match the previous home video releases (at a minimum)*, and original audio in HD and I'll be happy....once they do that as far as I'm concerned they can add as many audio tracks as they'd like and release the old SE's and create new ones to their hearts content....I even promise to buy them.

*EDIT: I'd prefer a colour timing that matches the original theatrical releases, of course but I don't even know if anyone at Lucasfilm or Disney even knows what the films looked like back then anymore.

 Robert Harris would do anything he could to perfectly color correct the Original Theatrical Versions to match exactly how they looked when they were originally released in 1977, 1980, and 1983. 

I remember reading that when Robert Harris restored Vertigo in the late 1990's, he went as far as locating original costumes to get the color correction just perfect. Ford Motor Company even provided him with a green paint sample of the color of the car the Kim Novak character drove in the film.

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riddler95 said:

Nick66 said:

Just give me the pre 97 films (I'm OK with the 81 crawl) with a full restoration (hello Robert Harris) without excessive DVNR and colours that match the previous home video releases (at a minimum)*, and original audio in HD and I'll be happy....once they do that as far as I'm concerned they can add as many audio tracks as they'd like and release the old SE's and create new ones to their hearts content....I even promise to buy them.

*EDIT: I'd prefer a colour timing that matches the original theatrical releases, of course but I don't even know if anyone at Lucasfilm or Disney even knows what the films looked like back then anymore.

 Robert Harris would do anything he could to perfectly color correct the Original Theatrical Versions to match exactly how they looked when they were originally released in 1977, 1980, and 1983.

If the wildly inconsistant colour grading/image dynamics of the Star Wars Despecialised Edition is truely representative of how it looked when it came out in the theatres in 1977, I don't imagine that Disney will wish to recreate those colours/image dynamics for an official blu-ray release, it simply wouldn't look like a modern professional release with consistant colour grading. I certainly wouldn't want them to and would have serious reservations about buying the Star Wars release if it did.

Outside of some people on this site and others looking for a nostalgia trip, I don't think the mainstream viewers would tolerate such inconsistent colour grading in a modern blu-ray release and Disney will be wanting to make as much money as possible off these UOT blu-ray releases.

Hopefully if they do release these, which I certainly hope they do, if only just to get at the lapti nek and yub nub footage in hd, they'll come up with a nice consistant natural looking balanced colour scheme that has a colour continuety that links all three films, that will blow our socks off and make these films look much better than they've ever looked before. As much fine grain and detail as possible would be a big plus for me as well and toning down the contrast to make them look as filmic as possible, not digital like the blu-ray releases we currently have. They'll certainly get my money if they do that.

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riddler95 said:

Robert Harris would do anything he could to perfectly color correct the Original Theatrical Versions to match exactly how they looked when they were originally released in 1977, 1980, and 1983.

Unlike digital colour record where everything is clearly defined (RGB, HSV etc.), in case of analogue medium (i.e. film) colour is a very complex matter. "How they looked when they were originally released" is big variable and is really impossible to determine.

真実

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This is true. With the analog technology, no two prints looked the same - so taking a few low fade prints as a reference and making a sort of amalgamation of that would give you something approaching the "original" colors. So, I don't think it would be a good idea for a major professional restoration to stick religiously to one particular print, if they have access to more and they probably should keep the clors somewhat consistent throughout the film. What I think should however definitely be done, is to keep the over-all color schemes of each sequence as they appear on the original prints - it would be very wrong for a restoration to attempt to make the film look modern.

The Godfather restoration is a great example of that - the colors are nice and consistent and probably better than even on the initial release, but they have that beautiful vintage look fitting for the era in which the movie was made.

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Harmy said:

This is true. With the analog technology, no two prints looked the same - so taking a few low fade prints as a reference and making a sort of amalgamation of that would give you something approaching the "original" colors. So, I don't think it would be a good idea for a major professional restoration to stick religiously to one particular print, if they have access to more and they probably should keep the clors somewhat consistent throughout the film. What I think should however definitely be done, is to keep the over-all color schemes of each sequence as they appear on the original prints - it would be very wrong for a restoration to attempt to make the film look modern.

The Godfather restoration is a great example of that - the colors are nice and consistent and probably better than even on the initial release, but they have that beautiful vintage look fitting for the era in which the movie was made.

When it comes to this matter I think probably the best technique to restore the colours is to just call the Director or DP and let them give their judgement regarding what kind of colour tone they were trying to achieve on the set. It will be subjective of course but I still think it better than using some worn-out film stock and letting someone who had nothing to do with the film (i.e. what people refer to as "professional") subjectively decide the tone.

真実

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I disagree - we often saw the negative impact of what happens when people who were originally involved in the process are calling the shots on a restoration or a new master - most obviously of course George Lucas, but then you have all the new restorations of James Cameron films Like Terminator, Aliens or Titanic, supervised by Cameron getting a teal and orange look, same goes for the Blade Runner Final Cut, LOTR FOTR EE BD, Matrix and others - the best way in my opinion, is to have it done by a competent expert colorist, who knows the processes that were involved at the time of the movie's making and is able to replicate them. And you say:

"someone who had nothing to do with the film (i.e. what people refer to as "professional") subjectively decide the tone"

to which I would counter, that such an expert, unlike someone who did have something to do with the film, is actually far more likely to decide things objectively.

And worn out film stock, if it's non-fading, like the I.B. Technicolor, is definitely a better source of information, than somebody's memories of something that happened 30 years ago - memories get distorted in unbelievable ways.

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imperialscum said:

Harmy said:

This is true. With the analog technology, no two prints looked the same - so taking a few low fade prints as a reference and making a sort of amalgamation of that would give you something approaching the "original" colors. So, I don't think it would be a good idea for a major professional restoration to stick religiously to one particular print, if they have access to more and they probably should keep the clors somewhat consistent throughout the film. What I think should however definitely be done, is to keep the over-all color schemes of each sequence as they appear on the original prints - it would be very wrong for a restoration to attempt to make the film look modern.

The Godfather restoration is a great example of that - the colors are nice and consistent and probably better than even on the initial release, but they have that beautiful vintage look fitting for the era in which the movie was made.

When it comes to this matter I think probably the best technique to restore the colours is to just call the Director or DP and let them give their judgement regarding what kind of colour tone they were trying to achieve on the set. It will be subjective of course but I still think it better than using some worn-out film stock and letting someone who had nothing to do with the film (i.e. what people refer to as "professional") subjectively decide the tone.

I imagine this is exactly what they'll do. Might be a little scary having GL involved in that process though, which I imagine he would be even if he doesn't own Lucasfilm anymore, at the very least for the first film which he directed. Look at what he did with Star Wars, the blu-ray that looks the worst of the original trilogy IMHO, a dark overly contrasty/saturated blue mess...

One can only hope that if these UOT releases happen, Star Wars in particular will be treated with the utmost respect this time round, maintaining its filmic look and the feel of the decade it was shot in, rather than creating a totally new modern looking colour scheme with a strong blanket tint across the whole film like Raiders of the Lost Ark or one of James Cameron's films on blu-ray with their blanket teal tints... *shudder*

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kk650 said:

riddler95 said:

Nick66 said:

Just give me the pre 97 films (I'm OK with the 81 crawl) with a full restoration (hello Robert Harris) without excessive DVNR and colours that match the previous home video releases (at a minimum)*, and original audio in HD and I'll be happy....once they do that as far as I'm concerned they can add as many audio tracks as they'd like and release the old SE's and create new ones to their hearts content....I even promise to buy them.

*EDIT: I'd prefer a colour timing that matches the original theatrical releases, of course but I don't even know if anyone at Lucasfilm or Disney even knows what the films looked like back then anymore.

 Robert Harris would do anything he could to perfectly color correct the Original Theatrical Versions to match exactly how they looked when they were originally released in 1977, 1980, and 1983.

If the wildly inconsistant colour grading/image dynamics of the Star Wars Despecialised Edition is truely representative of how it looked when it came out in the theatres in 1977

Which I have a hard time believing it is.

kk650 said:

imperialscum said:

Harmy said:

This is true. With the analog technology, no two prints looked the same - so taking a few low fade prints as a reference and making a sort of amalgamation of that would give you something approaching the "original" colors. So, I don't think it would be a good idea for a major professional restoration to stick religiously to one particular print, if they have access to more and they probably should keep the clors somewhat consistent throughout the film. What I think should however definitely be done, is to keep the over-all color schemes of each sequence as they appear on the original prints - it would be very wrong for a restoration to attempt to make the film look modern.

The Godfather restoration is a great example of that - the colors are nice and consistent and probably better than even on the initial release, but they have that beautiful vintage look fitting for the era in which the movie was made.

When it comes to this matter I think probably the best technique to restore the colours is to just call the Director or DP and let them give their judgement regarding what kind of colour tone they were trying to achieve on the set. It will be subjective of course but I still think it better than using some worn-out film stock and letting someone who had nothing to do with the film (i.e. what people refer to as "professional") subjectively decide the tone.

I imagine this is exactly what they'll do. Might be a little scary having GL involved in that process though, which I imagine he would be even if he doesn't own Lucasfilm anymore, at the very least for the first film which he directed. Look at what he did with Star Wars, the blu-ray that looks the worst of the original trilogy IMHO, a dark overly contrasty/saturated blue mess...

One can only hope that if these UOT releases happen, Star Wars in particular will be treated with the utmost respect this time round, maintaining its filmic look and the feel of the decade it was shot in, rather than creating a totally new modern looking colour scheme with a strong blanket tint across the whole film like Raiders of the Lost Ark or one of James Cameron's films on blu-ray with their blanket teal tints... *shudder*

I can't imagine them letting Lucas be involved at all. They know how it went last time he was involved.

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imperialscum said:

riddler95 said:

Robert Harris would do anything he could to perfectly color correct the Original Theatrical Versions to match exactly how they looked when they were originally released in 1977, 1980, and 1983.

Unlike digital colour record where everything is clearly defined (RGB, HSV etc.), in case of analogue medium (i.e. film) colour is a very complex matter. "How they looked when they were originally released" is big variable and is really impossible to determine.

 can someone explain this further?  i remember when i saw the making of the superman II donner cut, they had all these original production notes of everything that was shot with specific details.  and I know that things like lens type, shutter speed, tracking, etc are also noted - wouldnt the same thing be done for color timing?  even though it was analog, wouldnt they have various color 'gradients' defined by some sort of numbering or naming convention so you dont have to guess? 

I guess if I were to make an analogy, its kind of like when you get new tile installed - if something were to happen, they go back to the original dye lot so a replacement doesnt mismatch.

is that not the case or it doesnt work that way? 

click here if lack of OOT got you down