Permission to speak candidly?

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darth_ender's avatar
Permission to speak candidly?

I like ROTJ, in some ways better than ANH and ESB, though I admit it has its flaws, and I admit that the other two are quite wonderful.

I like the PT, though it is weaker in every aspect than the OT in my humble opinion.

When I go to the Jedi Council Forums, I cannot criticize the PT at all without getting hanged by a few PT Jihadists.

When I come here, I cannot defend the PT or ROTJ without getting hanged a few OT Crusaders.

To say that calling Qui-Gon Jinn the best PT character is like saying syphilis is the best STD is stupid.

To ask why anyone would download the Japanese laserdisc rip of TPM is stupid.

To make a list of 50 reasons why ROTJ sucks while saying ESB is a perfect film is stupid (and clearly uses DOUBLE STANDARDS when judging both films).

I like certain films. My opinion is valid.

You don't like them. Your opinion is valid.

But stating something as utter fact and providing hyperbole rather than reason to back that up is...you guessed it...stupid.

I like everyone here, so no one get offended. I even join in the PT bashing often. But don't be stupid.

Acknowledgements:

My appreciation goes to Bingowings, for without his posting format (patent pending) this post would not have been as much fun to create.

The ROTJ collaborative thread is a wealth of ideas, both on how to edit Return of the Jedi, as well as how to collaborate in an edit.  Emanswfan has taken leadership of the project.

 

Password for all ROTJ-related clips: ROTJ

A very rough edit of how the Battle of Endor could go
A very rough idea of how ROTJ could end

Rough edit based on the final script with some deviation:

Part 1  Part 2  Part 3  Part 4

DuracellEnergizer's avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

Permission denied. Now back to the gulag with you.

God doesn't think in terms of black or white - or even shades of gray - but in big, bright, bold hues of blue and orange.

timdiggerm's avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

Well, I agree.

ray_afraid's avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

That list of "50 reasons..." was brought up by Harmy because someone wanted to know what some people didn't like about ROTJ besides the ewoks and Fetts goofy death. I made a fairly large post de-bunking and defending the film against some of those "50 reasons..".

darth_ender said:

ROTJ is a good movie in my mind. I don't mind others disagreeing, and I see flaws with it as well, but I still love it. Opinions can differ from person to person, and we are not all idiots simply because we don't all think alike. I get really tired of people who tell me I'm stupid for enjoying ROTJ, or even for enjoying the PT

Nobody over there called anybody "stupid" or suggested anyone was a "idiot" for liking ROTJ.

Hey, it's me.'s avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

I remember going to see Jedi in Leicester square when it 1st came out. Taking the day off school (I was 8) going with my dad. I still remember to this day the guy in the Vader costume outside scaring the s**t out of me! Lol. I was transfixed by the film, it was fantastic. Jabbas palace, the biker chase, the end battle, everything. Through my teens I kinda grew out of Star Wars but rekindled my interest in my 20's. And watching the OT again through aged eyes the flaws with the films are plainly evident, especially Jedi. But despite that,I will always love the films. These trivial nitpicks I often hear about the asteroid cave scene in Empire (walking in a weightless environment and the other rubbish) are nonsensical. For me, ESB is flawless. Star Wars isn't science fiction. It's fantasy that happens to be set in space. Star Trek, for example, is science fiction. 

imperialscum's avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

Well ROTJ is in my opinion completely on a par with SW and ESB. Yes it does have some "silly" things (like Ewoks) but SW and ESB have their share of "silly" things too. After all these are fantasy films.

Maybe ESB has a little better acting but that is reasonably so because the story/script offered a bit more and because twice as much time was spent on principal photography compared to either ROTJ or SW.

As for prequels, the main problem I have with them is that it is not an adventure/fantasy any more. It is a soap opera about an annoying repulsive main character. And I don't enjoy that...

Last edited on April 26, 2013 at 3:46 PM by imperialscum

Prequel Trilogy was supposed to be a story about a good man turning bad. In reality, it is a story about how a complete jerk (PT Anakin) turned into one of the best characters in film history (OT Vader)

ToscheStation's avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

imperialscum said:

Maybe ESB has a little better acting but that is reasonably so because the story/script offered a bit more and because twice as much time was spent on principal photography compared to either ROTJ or SW.

    ESB also spent "twice as much time" going over-budget..........

Hey, it's me.'s avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

ToscheStation said:

imperialscum said:

Maybe ESB has a little better acting but that is reasonably so because the story/script offered a bit more and because twice as much time was spent on principal photography compared to either ROTJ or SW.

    ESB also spent "twice as much time" going over-budget..........

Making the OT was fraught with problems. And as for ESB going over budget, I think it's fair to say it was worth it in the end. It was a risk offcourse, but then again that's what life's all about. 

Cobra Kai's avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

Jedi has its problems, and as a whole it's not as good as the other two, but IMO the third act is on par with SW and Empire.  There is a lot going on during the final act and i think they pulled it off beautifully.  

 

Last edited on April 26, 2013 at 5:42 PM by Cobra Kai

 

"In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be "replaced" by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten." - George Lucas


"I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them." - George Lucas


 

georgec's avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

The best aspects of Jedi are on par with the best parts in the other films.

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.” - The Bearded One

timdiggerm's avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

Now that we're back on the very same topic that has been discussed over and over...

 

IN SUMMARY: The amount of hyperbole that goes on here about ROTJ and the PT is unnecessary and not helpful. If you have seriously made the kinds of statements Darth Ender pointed out, you should rethink things.

ray_afraid's avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

georgec said:

The best aspects of Jedi are on par with the best parts in the other films.

Absolutely. Mark Hamil's performance is his best in the series and the stuff between Luke, Vader and the emperor is great.

 

Bingowings' avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

ROTJ does largely suck to TPM levels and ANH and ESB don't, RIP topic :-P

  • Anál nathrach,
    orth’ bháis’s bethad,
    do chél dénmha
georgec's avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

ray_afraid said:

georgec said:

The best aspects of Jedi are on par with the best parts in the other films.

Absolutely. Mark Hamil's performance is his best in the series and the stuff between Luke, Vader and the emperor is great.

 

Not only that, I just never had a problem with Ewoks. Their presence might seem silly, and I can concede that the battle with the stormtroopers is a bit uneven in allowing the imperial forces to be so easily overtaken by Ewoks hitting their helmets with sticks. But, it simply doesn't detract from the movie for me.

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.” - The Bearded One

Hey, it's me.'s avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

georgec said:

ray_afraid said:

georgec said:

The best aspects of Jedi are on par with the best parts in the other films.

Absolutely. Mark Hamil's performance is his best in the series and the stuff between Luke, Vader and the emperor is great.

 

Not only that, I just never had a problem with Ewoks. Their presence might seem silly, and I can concede that the battle with the stormtroopers is a bit uneven in allowing the imperial forces to be so easily overtaken by Ewoks hitting their helmets with sticks. But, it simply doesn't detract from the movie for me.

That's right. Seeing the ewoks appear didnt make me suddenly dismiss the whole film. "What the f**k are those things? And what the f**k are they doing to the stor..? Never entered my mind. They're part of it. And if you've bought into the film and the story, then you won't question it. 

TV's Frink's avatar
RE: Permission to speak candyly?

Did someone mention something about candy?

TV's Frink's avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

Man, that is loaded with candy.  Unfortunately, something tells me it's a trap.

Last edited on April 27, 2013 at 4:46 AM by TV's Frink
Tobar's avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

I want one of those Jabbas...

Bingowings' avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?
Disgusting green blob...

  • Anál nathrach,
    orth’ bháis’s bethad,
    do chél dénmha
DuracellEnergizer's avatar
RE: Permission to speak candidly?

Turquoise Hutts should be made canon.

God doesn't think in terms of black or white - or even shades of gray - but in big, bright, bold hues of blue and orange.

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