Warbler said:

not silly



silly

Properly maintained toilet cubicles are the height of privacy.

You have the space totally to yourself regardless of the gender or preferences of the people outside.

Wishing that gay people didn't exist sounds very dodgy.

Warb and I don't get on but I don't think he means it the way it sounds.

it does however sound like wishing Jews would just come to their senses and join the same church that Warb goes to or wishing that people of different skin colour would all become the same as he.

Most people grow out of fearing diversity and complexity, it's the sort of thing children feel.

As for men looking silly in dresses and women looking smart in trousers.

What makes clothes look silly is subjective regardless of gender.

Warbler said:

Mrebo said:

Warbler's hypothetical is more analogous to there being no left-handed people, than blacks and jews. It would be simpler if there were no left-handed people. Not because such people are necessarily undesirable, but functionally it would just be easier.

exactly.

yeah, how about if we were all gray, hairless, mute blobs? boy that would be the best! no gender, no language, no intercourse, no anything!

Why would people take their pants off at the beach?

Because they want to go in the sea.

What else is the beach for?

You can't go home in wet knickers.

Bingowings said:

Why would people take their pants off at the beach?

Because they want to go in the sea.

What else is the beach for?

You can't go home in wet knickers.

Not sure if serious.

I suppose Polynesians, Zulus and Thai men look silly in skirts too?

Obsessing over clothes is very provincial.

A man in a suit only looks normal to you because it's what you are used to.

If you saw men in kilts everyday you wouldn't blink an eye.

Priests, professors and Judges wear frocks. Grow up.

Warbler said:

TV's Frink said:

Bingowings said:

Why would people take their pants off at the beach?

Because they want to go in the sea.

What else is the beach for?

You can't go home in wet knickers.

have you heard of bathing suits?

Which you have to change into and out of.

Bingowings said:

Properly maintained toilet cubicles are the height of privacy.

I thoroughly disagree. I think you overestimate the extent to which many people are comfortable in public spaces when partially disrobed or using a toilet.

Wishing that gay people didn't exist sounds very dodgy.

When viewed through a lens of homosexuality being an indispensable part of identity, sure. timdiggerm sort of touched on that. Seen through a lens of we're all just people (with various desires and predilections) and that it would be simpler if people only had a desire for the opposite sex is another matter. That's why I liked what Gaffer had to say, as he responded from that less paradigmatic framework.

As you say, Warbler didn't mean what it can sound like to many.

Most people grow out of fearing diversity and complexity, it's the sort of thing children feel.

As for men looking silly in dresses and women looking smart in trousers.

What makes clothes look silly is subjective regardless of gender.

I don't believe that children fear diversity and complexity nor that most adults embrace it.

Expectations play a role in what looks weird. I have this hoody I enjoy that I've been told should be burned. It defies certain expectations of good taste. But I find it quirky and warm. A dress on a man defies a bigger expectation - though I think that is part of the fun for many men who do so. In general "I'm an old fashioned cat."

I think you overestimate the vulnerability of people sitting in a locked toilet cubicle.

I would hate to lose variety and complexity.

Having limited options means I'm more prone to be a victim of fate rather than a creature of action capable of making choices.

The idea that there would only be one flavour of desire with only one outcome (procreation) turns the human race into little less than a plague.

Only diversity adds poetry and surprises.

My homosexuality isn't the whole of me but it is a large part of me which I have had to adjust to as have the people around me.

Me without it would not be me regardless of what I do with it in terms of sticking my genitals into things.

Children hate clowns. Clowns are ambiguity personified. The gender and age cues are mixed up they have false faces, the body signature is confused, they have squeaky feet.

Over time you come to realise that clowns aren't scary, they are EVIL!!!!

Bingowings said:

Warbler said:

TV's Frink said:

Bingowings said:

Why would people take their pants off at the beach?

Because they want to go in the sea.

What else is the beach for?

You can't go home in wet knickers.

have you heard of bathing suits?

Which you have to change into and out of.

So you've never heard of wearing your suit to the beach?  And then drying off, siting on a towel, etc?

TV's Frink said:

Bingowings said:

Warbler said:

TV's Frink said:

Bingowings said:

Why would people take their pants off at the beach?

Because they want to go in the sea.

What else is the beach for?

You can't go home in wet knickers.

have you heard of bathing suits?

Which you have to change into and out of.

So you've never heard of wearing your suit to the beach?  And then drying off, siting on a towel, etc?

Wear bathing trunks to the beach and back?

Are you nuts?

You clearly haven't experienced a British summer.

Warbler said:

ok

none of these are in wedding dresses yet they still look silly to me.

I think the top one looks perfectly fine.  The middle one isn't exactly to my taste, and he's definitely going for a genderbent style.  However, I can see how you would consider them silly-looking.  But I can't for the life of me figure out how the bottom one looks at all silly or even feminine in the slightest (assuming it's the preconceived notions of "femininity" being used outside of their "proper" context that are throwing you).  He looks quite traditionally manly, and I'd half expect him to be on his way to a caber toss.  He might as well just be wearing shorts.  If you squinted, that's probably what he'd look like.

EDIT:  Worth pointing out.  Jesus didn't wear pants.  He wore unbifurcated garments, the category to which a skirt and dress belong.  I certainly hope you wouldn't tell Jesus he looked silly and for him to put on some damn pants because he's offending your traditional sensibilities. =P

Warbler said:

Gaffer Tape said:  But I can't for the life of me figure out how the bottom one looks at all silly or even feminine in the slightest

he is wearing a dress.

Gaffer Tape said:

EDIT:  Worth pointing out.  Jesus didn't wear pants.  He wore unbifurcated garments, the category to which a skirt and dress belong.  I certainly hope you wouldn't tell Jesus he looked silly and for him to put on some damn pants because he's offending your traditional sensibilities. =P

Jesus did that 2000 years ago.  Pants hadn't been invented yet.

Yeah they had. The persians and greeks were wearing them roughly 600 years before Jesus was supposedly born.

Warbler said:

Gaffer Tape said:  But I can't for the life of me figure out how the bottom one looks at all silly or even feminine in the slightest

he is wearing a dress.

Actually, he's wearing a skirt.  Or quite possibly a "Utilikilt" or one of the several other brands of skirts marketed towards and created for men, quite like those pantsuit pictures of women you posted.  It's completely analogous.  He's a man wearing "man" clothes, so there has to be something beyond "he is wearing this" that makes it look silly to you.

And the one at the bottom isn't wearing a dress.

He is wearing a skirt or kilt.

**the gaffer beat me to it**

BTW the ladies love a man in a kilt.

Haha, I can't help it.  This skirt/dress confusion reminds me of my story of when I was hit on by a 'gangsta.'

/shamelessplug

Chewtobacca said:

greenpenguino said: The persians and greeks were wearing them roughly 600 years before Jesus was supposedly born.

The Persians (and Gauls and Germans) wore them, but not the Greeks and Romans, who thought them effeminate.

Thanks for that correction Chewtobacca! And it's interesting what one time period considered effeminate that another considered masculine. Fascinating.

High heels also used to be a necessary fashion accessory for men as well, before that changed however many years ago.

By 1981 as I recall.