Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

Warbler said :

true, but at least when I booze and/or over eat while sitting next to someone, I am not giving them heart disease and/or liver problems. 

True but have you heard about a domestic abuse case directly linked to smoking? I could imagine one linked to giving up smoking but not smoking itself. What about the hit and run drivers where their judgement was blurred by tobacco.

I have never committed domestic abuse, nor do I drive drunk. 

And I've never given anyone lung cancer. There, we're even!

However, on my way to work I drive past several white crosses alongside the highway... Most of them related to drunk driving. There is no arguing it, alcohol is WAY more deadly than cigarettes.

The cool thing about cigarettes is they generally only effect the smoker. Unless you are a d-bag who smokes in-doors with your children, or in a car you drive your kids around in, then your smoke isn't really getting to those around you. In-door public smoking is almost non existent, except for certain bars and clubs, and you know going into those places that you are going to be breathing it, it is your choice. There are plenty of bar and club options out there that are smoke free.

Getting hit by a drunk driver, or knifed by a drunk idiot because he noticed you notice his girlfriend, isn't a choice. Last night I almost got barreled over by an extremely large (rotund) drunk. He came charging toward my table, in a hurry to scoot past it and get somewhere, but instead tripped over it. On his way down he grabbed my chair, almost pulling it backwards, as the chair started to tip I leaned forward and grabbed the table. These are the really tall bar height chairs, if he would have pulled me backwards like he almost did, I probably would have smashed the back of my head real good on the hard tile floor. There are bar room injuries and accidents every night. Just visit your local ER during the 11 - 4 am period. You'll see the wonders of alcohol at work.

RRS-1980 said:

Of course Warbler is wrong about booze. Alcohol does ruin people around the drinker.

it can,  but it doesn't give others deadly health problems.  

No, but it sure does kill a lot of people dead. Kind of skips the health problems part... Except for when it doesn't skip the health problems part, which is extremely often. Are you not aware of the deadly long term health risks associated with alcohol use?

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

Warbler said :

true, but at least when I booze and/or over eat while sitting next to someone, I am not giving them heart disease and/or liver problems. 

True but have you heard about a domestic abuse case directly linked to smoking? I could imagine one linked to giving up smoking but not smoking itself. What about the hit and run drivers where their judgement was blurred by tobacco.

I have never committed domestic abuse, nor do I drive drunk. 

And I've never given anyone lung cancer. There, we're even!

 

However, on my way to work I drive past several white crosses alongside the highway... Most of them related to drunk driving. There is no arguing it, alcohol is WAY more deadly than cigarettes.

Last time: I don't drink and drive.  

you are talking about the stuff some people due while drunk.  I was talking about drinking itself as compared to smoking itself.    The act of drinking itself only harms the drinker.   The act of smoking harms everyone around the smoker.    

CP3S said:

Getting hit by a drunk driver, or knifed by a drunk idiot because he noticed you notice his girlfriend, isn't a choice. Last night I almost got barreled over by an extremely large (rotund) drunk. He came charging toward my table, in a hurry to scoot past it and get somewhere, but instead tripped over it. On his way down he grabbed my chair, almost pulling it backwards, as the chair started to tip I leaned forward and grabbed the table. These are the really tall bar height chairs, if he would have pulled me backwards like he almost did, I probably would have smashed the back of my head real good on the hard tile floor. There are bar room injuries and accidents every night. Just visit your local ER during the 11 - 4 am period. You'll see the wonders of alcohol at work.

I am glad you are alright.  I have never had to go to the ER, nor I have caused anyone else to go to the ER.  

CP3S said:

Are you not aware of the deadly long term health risks associated with alcohol use?

yes, but the health risks are only to the drinker,  not those around him. 

Warbler said:

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

Warbler said :

true, but at least when I booze and/or over eat while sitting next to someone, I am not giving them heart disease and/or liver problems. 

True but have you heard about a domestic abuse case directly linked to smoking? I could imagine one linked to giving up smoking but not smoking itself. What about the hit and run drivers where their judgement was blurred by tobacco.

I have never committed domestic abuse, nor do I drive drunk. 

And I've never given anyone lung cancer. There, we're even!

 

However, on my way to work I drive past several white crosses alongside the highway... Most of them related to drunk driving. There is no arguing it, alcohol is WAY more deadly than cigarettes.

Last time: I don't drink and drive.  

Last time: I don't have lung cancer.

I suppose that means both habits are pretty safe and harmless?

CP3S said:

Are you not aware of the deadly long term health risks associated with alcohol use?

yes, but the health risks are only to the drinker,  not those around him. 

Not if you don't smoke in close proximity of others. When I smoke it is usually out of doors alone with my pipe or a cigar. There is no one around me breathing that air. When I go out with friends and bum a cigarette or two, it is us smoking around a lot of other smokers, or people over the age of 21 who are willingly putting themselves into a room filled with deadly carcinogenic air.

It is true, you do have dumb women pushing strollers while smoking or pregnant, and other horrible selfish acts like that. But that is akin to the guy who has a few drinks and physically or verbally abuses his children while under the influence, or a woman who drives her kids somewhere while drunk. It is irresponsible use. I wasn't trying to argue those things never happen. Both drinking and smoking are horrible habits, but I find it annoying and ironic that smokers are highly looked down upon at present in our society, almost to the point of becoming taboo, but alcohol use and abuse is still plenty acceptable.

It is an example of, "I don't do it, so it isn't a big deal to lose it". If you enjoy going out every now and then and loosening up with a few drinks, then you can't really condemn the habit. When you get no enjoyment out of smoking or have any interest in it, then it is easy to say, "It is disgusting and you are killing the entire world!" A lot more people drink than smoke, so this one is a no brainer. But if we are being fair, they are both pretty awful, pretty disgusting, and over all do a massive amount of harm.

CP3S said:

Last time: I don't have lung cancer.

yet.  I hope you don't ever get it, of course, but well you know . . .

for you, and you are welcome.  

Frink,  I wasn't aware that a drinking vs. smoking discussion, was a political discussion.     Since the argument did involve smoking,  I think we agree that the argument is not off topic for this thread.

oh. 

cabs, trains, and buses also pollute, do they not?   As far as pollution concerns go, the numbers cars someone owns has nothing to do with it,  it is how much the person drives is the question.   A car that sits a  driveway, turned off,  doesn't pollute at all.  

comparing cars to smoking is as stupid as comparing cars to guns.

Also I had thought that electric and hybrid cars were much better for the enviornment than standard gas cars, but I am no expert. 

Bingowings said:

Warbler said:

cabs, trains, and buses also pollute, do they not?   As far as pollution concerns go, the numbers cars someone owns has nothing to do with it,  it is how much the person drives is the question.   A car that sits a  driveway, turned off,  doesn't pollute at all.  

comparing cars to smoking is as stupid as comparing cars to guns.

Also I had thought that electric and hybrid cars were much better for the enviornment than standard gas cars, but I am no expert. 

Yeah but cars, trains and buses carry more people per tank of fuel ergo polluting less per journey.

but it is still pollution. 

Bingowings said:

A car that sits in a driveway and doesn't go any where A) is a redundant structure by definition a pollutant  B) eventually breaks down into pollutants and C) creates pollution being constructed.

but it is not producing pollution while sitting in the drive way.    As for breaking down into pollutants,  I am sure the damage done by than can be limited by proper disposal of said pollutants. 

Bingowings said:

Comparing cars to smoking isn't stupid only a jerk or a drunk would say that.

maybe stupid was incorrect,  it is still no different than comparing guns to cars.  

Bingowings said:

And while we are on the subject of generally dangerous things having too many children (especially those you can't afford) is more of a risk to the world in general than smoking but people have a written right to that.

well unless you want laws like China has,  people are going to have as many children as they want.     

Bingowings said:

Apparently God loves filling the world up with babies but good heavens nobody light up!

*sigh*    

Bingowings said:

A child might be passing by in a fleet of cars driven by fat drunk drivers.

again, I don't drink and drive and don't approve of those that do.    I  consider those that to be much more dangerous than smokers.    and being fat as nothing to do with it.   A thin drunk driver is just as dangerous as a fat one.  

Bingowings said:

Be seedless and divide.

I think I understand what you mean by being seedless, but divide??? 

Bingowings said:

And give up things because you see the sense in doing so not because of some hysterical one sided puritanical witch-hunt.

You think I have been on some sort of one sided puritanical witch-hunt?

This all started because I gave someone a " *sigh* " when he admitted he smoked.     I don't think giving someone a " *sigh* "  is a hysterical one sided puritanical witch-hunt. 

*sigh*