How did you envision the prequels? :: 1 < 2 > 3

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FanFiltration's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?

How did I envision the prequels?

I envisioned them as being good! What a let down...

FF

"I stay in debt because I pattern myself after America. When America pays her bills, I'm gonna pay mine!" - Dick Gregory 

 


see you auntie's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
From the original SW it's safe to say Anakin is younger it might necessarily be spelt out but there are the references to "old man" etc.

The various and changing timelines and ages are examined (quite well and thoroughly) in the "secret history of star wars" which can be found on these forums if you do a search I guess. Forgive me I can't remember who the author is but he is a member here.

Offically there's 19 years between III and IV.

Ep1 - Kenobi is 25 Anakin is 9.

10 years in between

Ep2 - Kenobi is 35 Anakin is 19.

3 years pass

Ep3 - Kenobi is 38 Anakin is 22

19 years in bewteen

Ep4 - Kenobi is 57 Vader is 41

If I'm mistaken someone correct me as I did this quickly.

Add on about 10-15 years and things should be right.

Definately check out the web book I mentioned above. If I have time later I'll try to look it up.

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

ronlaw's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
xhonzi: yes, both of those aspects of cloning; I didn't have much specific ideas (very young) but I thought there were many interesting aspects of cloning. Probably something like cloned slaves rebelling, twisting themselves to fight, I don't know...
Darth Lucas: I am altering the trilogy. Pray I don't alter it further.
Sluggo's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
Originally posted by: see you auntie
The various and changing timelines and ages are examined (quite well and thoroughly) in the "secret history of star wars" which can be found on these forums if you do a search I guess. Forgive me I can't remember who the author is but he is a member here.


It is Zombie84. And it is good to see you around again xhonzi! Stop being such a lurker!

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish memes.

Check out my reconstruction of the ROTJ Shooting Script

xhonzi's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
It has been a couple years...

Thanks for noticing.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

Forbidden Zone's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
In reading all the thoughts above, I can't help feel sad for what we all have missed out on. At this point now, I would settle for a decent unofficial novel that sums up the past two pages of of great ideas to replace the Lucas 6 hour train wreck.
We've analyzed their attack, sir, and there is a danger.
CO's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
The huge mistake Lucas made, and I think this is the key to why the PT failed in many fans eyes is the fact that AOTC/ROTS Anakin is in many ways a whiney jerk.

Anakin didn't have to be exactly like Luke, but it was established in Episode I that Anakin was a good kid, and for whatever you think of Jake Lloyd, he is a good wholesome kid that you do sympathize with. AOTC Anakin is a jerk the minute he is on screen as he argues with Kenobi in front of Padme after whether they should protect her or find the killer, and from that moment on I just never really liked him, let alone cared for his plight. So when you have these tragic events happen to him in ROTS, you are almost rooting against him and wanting him to fall into lava as I sided with Kenobi at the end of the movie. Anakin should have been a likeable character until he turns, then you have that contrast that would make you feel his plight, cause you could understand what he was doing.

A good example of a tragedy would be Luke or Han turning on each other at the end of ROTJ, and watch them fight as trying to figure out who to root for? You wouldn't, you feel for the one that turned to the darkside, cause you cared about that character for 3 movies. I look at the Anakin character after Episode I, and sometimes wonder what the hell Lucas was thinking.
xhonzi's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
Wow, thanks for sharing.

Where is the rest of this book? And is the rest of the 1st draft of TPM also less screwed up than the movie?

xhonzi

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

Major fatal Moebius' avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
Well, I don't know about you guys, but over the years, now being a little older, wiser, I've learned to appreciate the prequel trilogy a whole lot more than I used to. There's just too much greatness in it to blatantly ignore or scoff at. The OT and PT are two totally different creations (yet, with similar themes and interesting philosophical ideas), accept that and you'll find there's plenty of great stuff to be found in the prequels.

That said, while I'm very fond of The phantom menace and Revenge of the sith now I still can't totally get into Attack of the clones.
xhonzi's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
Actually, as time goes on... I find I forget how mad I should be about the whole mess. Then I remember and return to originaltrilogy.com and complain.

xhonzi

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

Sluggo's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
Originally posted by: xhonzi
Actually, as time goes on... I find I forget how mad I should be about the whole mess. Then I remember and return to originaltrilogy.com and complain.

xhonzi


hehehe!!

As for me, I think I envisioned the prequels as being in the same spirit as the first TPM trailer. I actually sat through Wing Commander just to watch it. The saber fights, the music, the exotic creatures... man! It was awesome!

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish memes.

Check out my reconstruction of the ROTJ Shooting Script

CO's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
Originally posted by: Major fatal Moebius
Well, I don't know about you guys, but over the years, now being a little older, wiser, I've learned to appreciate the prequel trilogy a whole lot more than I used to. There's just too much greatness in it to blatantly ignore or scoff at. The OT and PT are two totally different creations (yet, with similar themes and interesting philosophical ideas), accept that and you'll find there's plenty of great stuff to be found in the prequels.

That said, while I'm very fond of The phantom menace and Revenge of the sith now I still can't totally get into Attack of the clones.



See I will never appreciate the PT, mainly because it is designed to tie in with the OT, and that forces the viewer to see them as 'one' story. You can't see it 1-6 as one story, when you have essentially two different trilogies, one filmed in the late 70's/80's and the other at the turn of the century. They are too different in terms of CGI to models, CG landscapes filmed in front of bluescreen to real landscapes, and Lucas himself changed over 20 years as he is just a different director, as most from his profession when they get older.

What Lucas should have done is left the OT untouched, and kept that as the OT story, and make the PT a true backstory, not a hamfisted continuous story that is supposed to be shoehorned 'now the beginning' to all the fans, like we watched a half finished story all these years!!!

The PT could have been filled with 21st century CG, 21st Century CG Landscapes, etc, and the viewer could essentially watch that story on its own, but still not screwing with the OT story. The PT shouldn't have been the beginning of the 'Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker', it should have just been a 3 movie trilogy about Anakin, Kenobi, and Padme, and The Emperor the same way the OT was the story about Luke, Leia, and Han, and Darth Vader.

Anakins turn should have been a plot point, not THE main point of the PT, as that would give more time for the Clone Wars, the birth of the Rebellion, the Force Ghost, etc. Instead you have this PT about the rise/fall of Anakin that is suppose to shoehorn in with redemption of Anakin now in 4-6, and it just doesn't work, cause they literally look like TWO different sets of movies, and the OT was never the redemption of Darth Vader, that was just a plot point in ROTJ!

I think many fans wouldn't be as hard on the PT, especially OOT fans, if the OT was left untouched, and you could essentially watch that 4-6 and enjoy that for the story arc it has in it. And if you want more SW, there is this backstory that is suppose to be watched AFTER the OT, that has an arc in itself about the main players and how they got there, and you could watch that in a different light cause essentially it was made 20 years after. 1-6 just doesn't work, the story, the visuals, the tone, I have tried it a zillion times, and I have yet to watch 1,2,3,4,5,6 consecutively(within weeks) in that order, and get through it with any enjoyment. I always start with TPM, and then realize I have to sludge through these 2 movies to get to something interesting in ROTS, plus realizing I have to get to the 4th movie to get to anything great.
xhonzi's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
Originally posted by: CO

Anakins turn should have been a plot point, not THE main point of the PT, as that would give more time for the Clone Wars, the birth of the Rebellion, the Force Ghost, etc. Instead you have this PT about the rise/fall of Anakin that is suppose to shoehorn in with redemption of Anakin now in 4-6, and it just doesn't work, cause they literally look like TWO different sets of movies, and the OT was never the redemption of Darth Vader, that was just a plot point in ROTJ!


I can see what you're saying, but I have to disagree that the PT suffers from "too much focus" on Anakin's turn to the Dark Side. The PT seems to concern itself mostly (and I will concede that this it does well) with the political backstory of the Empire and how the Emperor pulled the wool over everyone's eyes and convinced them to hand over their Republic without so much as a whimper. I think that was well done, yet wasn't my biggest interest in the trilogy. The one thing I really wanted was a serious, believable, tragedy. The political machinations of Palpatine received far more screen time than the fall.

xhonzi

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

Mielr's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
Originally posted by: Major fatal Moebius
Well, I don't know about you guys, but over the years, now being a little older, wiser, I've learned to appreciate the prequel trilogy a whole lot more than I used to.

The opposite has happened for me- the Prequels seem even worse now than when I saw them originally.

http://a.imageshack.us/img826/44/creamyicon.jpg
R.I.P. "Creamy" 2002(?) - 08/01/2010

see you auntie's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
Originally posted by: Mielr
Originally posted by: Major fatal Moebius
Well, I don't know about you guys, but over the years, now being a little older, wiser, I've learned to appreciate the prequel trilogy a whole lot more than I used to.

The opposite has happened for me- the Prequels seem even worse now than when I saw them originally.


+1

Thanks Zombie, now I don't have to. I thought you were the author but wan't 100% and didn't want to get it wrong.

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

C3PX's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
Originally posted by: Mielr
Originally posted by: Major fatal Moebius
Well, I don't know about you guys, but over the years, now being a little older, wiser, I've learned to appreciate the prequel trilogy a whole lot more than I used to.

The opposite has happened for me- the Prequels seem even worse now than when I saw them originally.


Yeah, true for me too, though I have probably seen AOTC and ROTS no more than three times each (which makes it interesting that I saw TPM seven times in the theater, just the excitement of the music and the opening crawl on the big screen and that lightsaber battle at the end made it worth it). I remember hating ROTS even more the second time I saw it, and it being unbearable the next time. First two times were in the cinema, third time was on DVD. I never saw AOTC in the theater, so I had only ever seen it on DVD, and I remember the first time being interested in what happens next, but greatly disappointed. And viewings of it after the first time were pretty painful, and one of those times was the riff track version, and it was still hard to watch. If I had to sum AOTC up in two words, they would be: "fingernails" and "chalkboard". If I ever had to watch it again in one setting, I might actually consider removing my eyes and squeezing them into my ears.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

see you auntie's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
A good read, great work again Zombie. I've got no criticism apart from a couple of spelling errors.

Obi-Wan is described as being about thirty years old and wears all black.


The movie and the PT just got infinitively better right there

My take on all this is it's the same film and plot with just some key characters decisions that improve it vastly.

The character of Anakin floors me. I really like what has been done here given his age. Though the young actor to play such a role would be a hard task. I also find Shmi Warker very interesting.

Pros:

Kenobi's age, title and wisdom. Pretty much the Qui Gon role we see in TPM minus the years.

Anakin's maturity.

Binks is slightly more serious. Still comedic relief without the silliness.

Maul's additional presences and dialogue.

Reduced Jedi Council. No Yoda or only for the first movie would of been better.

Cons:

Kenobi only has Binks interact with for much of the first half of the movie. (In theory I prefer it this way but it could turn out worse than the alternative in practice.)

Palpatines rise isn't so clear.



I think with a director other than Lucas shooting this script (George handling the podrace and the like) we could have had a movie on par with ROTJ. It still has its flaws but I like it a lot better.

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

xhonzi's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
I still think the movie needed/needs a strong infusion of Clone Wars right there in Episode 1. And I don't just mean introducing a droid army that the clones are later used to fight. Lucas previously sited Japanese Samurai films (Kurasawa) as an example of: Using an historical context for the backdrop of an adventure story without pandering to the audience (whether they are familiar with the history or not) the reasons behind that history. He claimed that convinced him to not feel too strong of a need to go explicitly into the Empire/Rebel conflict and all of the reasons behind it; just let it stand that it was. He thinks, and I agree, that that take on the setting set it apart from the other sci-fi and fantasy of the time. I expected the same angle on the Clone Wars and was a little surprised (and disappointed) he didn't follow his own advice when setting up the backdrop for the PT.

Which brings me to my next random thought: I always like listening to ol' George prattle about story theory, but then I'm always surprised (and disappointed, natch) how much I think he doesn't follow it. Or at least we disagree with the application of said theory. On the contrary, I love practically all of Jim Cameron's work, and consider him to be one of the truly inspired director's of our day, but when I listen to him in interviews and on commentaries and the like, he seems to be so wrong about story theory. Maybe I'm wrong and that's why I agree with the wrong guy. And why I can't finish anything I write...

I think we can all agree that that is more like the Obi-Wan we expected from the PT (and partially, at least, got in RotS). I wonder what lead George to change it to the movie version. I guess it buys you this:

1) A pre-Anakin example of a Jedi Master/Apprentice relationship

2) More Jedi througout the film (this is their heyday, is it not?)

3) More concern for Qui-Gonn's death at the end

That's about all I can think of. Definately tempting, I would think. But ultimately you're selling more than you're buying.
xhonzi

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

Fang Zei's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
xhonzi, I think you just touched upon one of the major problems of the PT. It's the back story of the OT thinly disguised as "the beginning."
xhonzi's avatar
How did you envision the prequels?
So, not to take the conversation in a new direction or anything...

I wanted to ask this question previously, but it seemed everyone was enjoying the current discussion. And then I was reading a lot of it on zombie's site...

What did we quote-unquote "know" about the PT before 1999? Some of it, obviously, was baseless rumour or conjecture, some of it was abandoned before the final product, and still some was actually in the movies. It looks like a lot of it is covered by zombie, but I haven't read all of it yet.

I can think of the following:
9/12/6 Movies. A trilogy of trilogies.

Mandalorian involvement

Clone Wars

Darth Vader hunted Jedi

Molten Battle between Anakin and Obiwan

Vader was the 12th Dark Lord of the Sith

Dang. I was thinking of more. What else shaped your anticipation of what the prequels would be?

xhonzi

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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