I really like what Harmy is doing here, but for the longest time I thought I was the ONLY one who thought that about the over saturating of his color, well stinky, as a matter of fact, I agree with you 100% I see now I am not the only one anymore, as much as I like what I see in the changes, it still gets hard to watch because it still feels like watching the SE, but I have spoken to Harmy by PM's a lot lately and he already knew how I felt, I just told him personally, but if I remember reading him correctly(Harmy) this is how he likes it and enjoys it, so by all means leave it the way you like it, after all, it is your baby, shouldn't you make it the way you want it? because ESB is the same way, really, really over saturated for my tastes, but love the damn changes, great work! I guess it really wouldn't be to hard for anyone to just re-do the video to their own tastes and re author.

@Stinky, you should see some of the other projects going on around here color wise LOL, it seems over saturation is what most want, 1 in particular, Luke does not even look like a white guy anymore LOL, I do like your George Hamilton reference though, but at least he still looks like a white dude.

Thanks DJ, I see how Empire is a bit oversaturated perhaps, it really depends on the calibration of the TV/monitor your're watching on and like I said before, there's no need for re-authoring, just pull the saturation down on your TV when watching it. I definitely don't think what I'm doing with STAR WARS is over-saturated though, I pulled the saturation down a lot compared to the SE. Actually, when I tried pulling it down even more, everyone started to have a sickly greyish colour, which just can't be right.

And the thing is that you say you still feel like watching the SE, but I'm pretty sure that's because you've been watching the original versions in the desaturated transfers done for VHS and LD for 30 years, so that's how the OOT looks in your mind and anything more saturated seems like the SE, which had more rich and saturated colours even in the 97 transfer.

The SE transfers were both more modern transfers than any transfer of the OOT and as such are far more likely to be closer to the original in this sense. There are of course some major colour-timing screw-ups, (which I am trying to fix) but the rich vibrant colours don't seem to be one of them.

And don't get me wrong, I do agree, that the 04SE did go over the top with it's saturation and that why I AM desaturating it, but not to anywhere near the sometimes almost B&W levels of the GOUT.

Harmy said:

And the thing is that you say you still feel like watching the SE, but I'm pretty sure that's because you've been watching the original versions in the desaturated transfers done for VHS and LD for 30 years, so that's how the OOT looks in your mind and anything more saturated seems like the SE, which had more rich and saturated colours even in the 97 transfer.

and you could be right LOL, but I DO like color, don't get me wrong, just not to much where everything looks fake and weird, the only example I can come up with is like going from B&W in Wizard of OZ to Color LOL, pretty damn extreme.

timdiggerm said:

dark_jedi said:

Luke does not even look like a white guy anymore LOL

Ah, no, he looks like a tan 70s white dude. Which...he was. Also, it's friggin Tatooine.

I am not talking about this particular project, in a different one Luke does not look white, or a tanned 70's dude, but who cares, it seems I am in the minority here when it comes to this kind of coloring, which is fine, that is why I do my own projects, or modify someone elses to my likes.

If you look at the Technicolor caps the flesh tones are far more natural than the SE's.

Like I said, the SE's have an absurd red bias and that is precisely what gives everyone that boiled, been-dipped-in-tanning-cream look. That's why one of the suns isn't nearly as red in the Technicolor caps, nor is R2's light, nor is Luke's face, etc.

Trying to replicate that extreme red push isn't the way to go in my opinion. 

Not the end of the world obviously and like you said the worst case scenario is me custom calibrating my TV for a Star-Wars only setting, but I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in since opinions were requested.

Yeah, sure, I'm glad you did, I think an interesting discussion sprang up and it got me to experiment with that scene a bit more, which I'm doing right now. I'll post some more caps when it's done.

But I'm not trying to replicate the reds of the SE. Not to mention that the GOUT is far more red-shifted than the SE, it's just not as obvious because of the low saturation.

I think it would be better with a color timing far closer to the Technicolor print than the SE's. The fleshtones are just far more natural looking, and everything isn't so biting.

That's what I'm trying to do but the technicolour pictures are closer to the SE than to any other transfer out there, I don't know how you don't see that.

The Technicolor caps have much, much less of a red bias.

OK, here goes, I darkened the technicolour picture to more reasonable levels (only brightness and contrast, nothing else) and tried to approximate the colours of that:

Luffy03 said:

Hi everybody!

What do you think about that sunset?

http://picfront.de/d/8c8i

 

What does this have to do with Harmy's project?

Harmy said:

OK, here goes, I darkened the technicolour picture to more reasonable levels (only brightness and contrast, nothing else) and tried to approximate the colours of that:

 

 Looks much better to my eyes. Fleshtone looks better than it did in the original comparison. Rather than a solid red gradient throughout his entire face and chest you can actually discern the red glow from the setting sun on proper skin tone.

Luffy03 said:

Hi everybody!

Bye!

Harmy said:

OK, here goes, I darkened the technicolour picture to more reasonable levels (only brightness and contrast, nothing else) and tried to approximate the colours of that:

 

 That's looks much better.

timdiggerm said:

Although the sky really doesn't seem purple enough....

 Nothing's ever purple enough for you.

The GOUT has a red bias for sure. It's gross. You have to dial out the red a lot. But that's colour casts, not saturation. In terms of saturation, the GOUT might as well be black and white. The SE has a lot of problems, but between the GOUT and the SE, the SE is by far--by far--more closer in terms of saturation. In fact, in some cases, it is undersaturated--for example, the Wampa cave should be blue, which it is in the GOUT when you dial the colours back in, which it is in the 1980 theatrical bootleg, and which it is in the print of ESB I watched a while back; yet in the SE, it is pretty neutral white.

I made an okay page about the OT colours, but it needs to be updated with better pics and such (which is why it was never public yet), but anyway you can see it here:

http://savestarwars.com/goutcorrect.html

Thanks, Zombie :-)

No offense zombie, but how do you know what exactly the colors should be? I mean, to play Devils advocate here, who says what you are saying is Gospel and 100% correct? I am curious is all, because like I said previously, I am definitely in the minority here with stinky-d, I do not buy into this super crazy saturation of colors like most here do, some of these samples being shown just look fucking terrible(I am not talking about these here Harmy, some of yours just look way over sat to me) and then to run that process through the entire film?

You know colors is just a very heated topic because everyone, well most everyone, see things differently, it will never look great to all, I found that out myself doing this kind of tweaking on a project of mine, it just really boils down to what Harmy wants and likes, and it is always easier dealing with the Folks that agree with you, than disagree, so I will stay out of the color talk in this thread like I have done in a couple of other members threads here to.

Good luck Harmy, just do what looks right to you.

dark_jedi said:

No offense zombie, but how do you know what exactly the colors should be? I mean, to play Devils advocate here, who says what you are saying is Gospel and 100% correct?

 Well, this is not some hypothetical thing here, this can be factually shown; either the colours should be muted or they should be not be muted.

When you look at the Technicolor prints, look at the older bootlegs, looks at previous telecines, look at trailers, consult reports of original showings, look at the GOUt and realize it has a lack of saturation and then increase that saturation and get a result that approximates all the previously-mentioned sources--it's no coincidence. Lucas even said about the Technicolor print of SW: "That's the Star Wars I shot."

You know colors is just a very heated topic because everyone, well most everyone, see things differently, it will never look great to all, I found that out myself doing this kind of tweaking on a project of mine, it just really boils down to what Harmy wants and likes, and it is always easier dealing with the Folks that agree with you, than disagree, so I will stay out of the color talk in this thread like I have done in a couple of other members threads here to.

Good luck Harmy, just do what looks right to you.

 It's not about opinion. This is either one way, or another. And whichever way it is, it can be demonstrated with evidence. Evidence indicates, practically irrefutably, that the stronger colour palette is the more accurate one--not that every choice should be taken as gospel but that, as a rule of thumb, this is the sort of levels that should be present. I realise the SE has a lot of fucked up colours, I'm not saying those should be followed, and I'm not suggesting the I.B. 2010 screening caps should be followed precisely, but I can guarantee you that Harmy is on the right track, in general terms at least. The only time the OT ever looked like it did on the GOUT is in certain analog home video telecines--even on the 1995 THX and 1997 SE telecines the colours make the GOUT look like black and white. The fact that when you dial out the red and increase the saturation the GOUT looks like many other film sources is no coincidence.

Thanks for backing me up on this, Zombie - I'm just trying to make the colours closer to what I think (based on evidence) they originally were.