From what i have seen one way Tfn'ers excuse how bad the prequels are.

Is by pointing out how blanks are filled in or how crappy points of the film or unexplained or nonsensical plot points are then fixed in other media, be it video games, comic books or novels, role playing game supplements etc.

But making the prequels incoherent and a mess as films or movies themselves only meant for those who have read or played everything coming out of the license or who have seen the original films.

In other words they are horrible for general audiences and non star wars nerds, and are bad films in this way.

Likewell you see Anakin's a good friend and great starpilot if you read this book or comic, or see this animated show, even though its not in the movie,lol.

The jedi purge is also not shown on screen really nor is the formation of the rebellion, again comic books and video games.

The clone wars story was also not told in the films/movies proper.

skyjedi2005 said:

Is by pointing out how blanks are filled in or how crappy points of the film or unexplained or nonsensical plot points are then fixed in other media, be it video games, comic books or novels, role playing game supplements etc.

But making the prequels incoherent and a mess as films or movies themselves only meant for those who have read or played everything coming out of the license or who have seen the original films.

In other words they are horrible for general audiences and non star wars nerds, and are bad films in this way.

Likewell you see Anakin's a good friend and great starpilot if you read this book or comic, or see this animated show, even though its not in the movie,lol.

The jedi purge is also not shown on screen really nor is the formation of the rebellion, again comic books and video games.

The clone wars story was also not told in the films/movies proper.

We also think good old HC was a damn fine actor and Jar Jar Binks was the greatest thing to happen to Star Wars since Boba Fett.

*sigh*

What about the whole Hamill's a horrible actor.  I did not see Hayden ever nominated for an award for being a stage actor, like Mark who played Amadeus.

Also he never did cool voiced characters like the Joker.

Hayden really is a horribly bad actor.  The Actor they wanted turned the role down anyway DiCaprio.

Not that he could have made Lucas Attack of the Wooden Romance dialogue any better.

^Dude, let it go.

Well to be honest i guess Star Wars is not the only media driven franchise in which having having knowledge outside of the main thing is useful like Halo or Mass Effect, but you don't need to read the ancillary stuff in those to make things make sense, its sort of more like there is more to explore.

Just that the Prequels presuppose that you already are a walking star wars encyclopedia whereas the original films are clearly meant for the average filmgoer and have a coherent plot structure, beginning middle and end.

A character to root for etc.

I think having knowledge of the originals, sepcifically 1977-1983 trilogy hurts the prequels ebcause you already have a preconceived notion of things.

But on the other hand the newer trilogy acts as though you have had to have seen the other movies.

I wonder if you are one of these young kids who starts with episode 1 and sees them in the new canon order Lucas prefers them to be viewed in if they make any more sense to them than they do to an original trilogy old school fan who thinks the prequels are a 90's creation and not at all in line with the star wars vision circa 1977- 1983.

I'm sorry but could you be more specific.  In what way do you need to have read the ancillary material and have seen the original trilogy in order for the prequels to make sense.  

And also, yes I do watch the movies in canon order.  I also watch them prequel free.  I'm as much a fan of the vintage material as I am the new material so it really all depends on my mood.  

I grew up watching the originals trilogy.  I went to see the Phantom Menace at 13, saw Attack of the Clones 3 or 4 times in theaters, and went to see Revenge of the Sith the week I graduated high school.  I've watched them many times since on DVD and it's even gotten to the point where I quote them.  

And I am willing to admit that the films are far from perfect.  There is some really stupid stuff in there but to say that they fail as movies is taking it a bit too far IMO.  Gili failed as a movie.  If they completely failed then they wouldn't have made so much money.  They wouldn't have spawned toys and merchandising that still sell to this day.  There wouldn't have been a spin off cartoon series currently entering it's 4th season.  Lucas isn't forcing people to buy this stuff.  People are buying it because they want it.  That's how capitalism works.

It really sucks that this is what fandom has devolved into.  It seems like everyone is either a total hater or a total gusher and it really sucks to be floating in the middle drifting back and forth like a plastic bag in the wind from TFN to OT.com helplessly trying to find a place to fit in as the polarized world of Star Wars fandom rips itself in two.       

mfastx said:

The prequels were doomed from the start. We already know what happens. We already know who lives, and who dies.

It's hard to get in to a sequence with, say, Obi-Wan Kenobi, because we know that he lives, so he can't die. It's hard to get into a movie when you already konw what happens.

Ugh... again?  I just got through explaining how this is wrong to theprequelsrule.

THERE IS MORE TO DRAMA THAN WHO LIVES/WHO DIES!

Yes, the PT sucks.  But not because they were prequels.

mfastx said:

The prequels were doomed from the start. We already know what happens. We already know who lives, and who dies.

It's hard to get in to a sequence with, say, Obi-Wan Kenobi, because we know that he lives, so he can't die. It's hard to get into a movie when you already konw what happens.

But we didn't know what happens. We didn't know what the Clone Wars were. We didn't know the important characters of the PT who didn't make it to the OT. The problem was that the PT failed in its own right, as well as being inconsistent with the OT.

We all basically knew Luke wasn't going to die as we watched the OT for the first time. But that never hurt the enjoyability. And in the PT we would similarly know that Obi Wan wouldn't die. While we would know that Anakin turns to Vader, we really had no idea why/how.

Solid character development, introduction of new characters, witty and engaging dialogue...these are what draw us in.

There is a thread (in Off Topic) about a recent study which suggested that knowing the twist of a story increases its enjoyability. One "member" disputes the breadth of the study's applicability and/or its methodology (or something), but in any event, its not necessarily a constant mortal threat that makes a story enjoyable. I hope it's not your contention that all prequels are failures.

More succinctly:

xhonzi said:

THERE IS MORE TO DRAMA THAN WHO LIVES/WHO DIES!

Darth Bizarro said:

It really sucks that this is what fandom has devolved into.  It seems like everyone is either a total hater or a total gusher and it really sucks to be floating in the middle drifting back and forth like a plastic bag in the wind from TFN to OT.com helplessly trying to find a place to fit in as the polarized world of Star Wars fandom rips itself in two.       

Well said.

twooffour said:

OT.com doesn't seem to be the radical prequel hating community you're talking about here - you'd rather find that at the RLM boards, although even that one has a refreshing percentage of reasonable members with whom you can discuss.

At any rate, you'd be well advised to drop some of your silly delusions - there is no need in the world for a "united Star Wars fandom", and neither do you have any need to "fit in" anywhere when it comes to movies and online communities.
Just let it go. I've almost never encountered another user anywhere that also loved the silly droid antics in ROTS, yet I don't feel lonely or depressed because of that. Why would this be?

 

No not the whole  community.  To say that everybody on OT is a radical prequel hater would be like calling everyone on TFN Lucas's personal ball washers.  If it was the whole community, I wouldn't be here.  Yes, I do have a stronger preference for the original trilogy and I think Lucas is a jack ass for suppressing the original versions.  But I won't go as far as to say that everything from 1983 on is utter crap.  

As far as my "silly delusions" about a "united Star Wars fandom", I never said any such thing.  No fandom is ever going to completely agree and it would be a "silly delusion" to think that way.  But I would site that Star Trek fans don't rage at others who have a preference for one series or another.  I've never been called a fool or barraged with critique and criticism every time I've said that I only like the Classic Trek series and movies and have no interest in Next Generation.  I don't see Doctor Who fans who prefer the old and new serials throwing jelly babies back and forth at one another.  They may not all agree, but they at least can get along and accept each other's differences in their fandom.    

IMHO there are two distinct ways that the prequels have harmed Star Wars:

1. They were not good films
2. They are representative of an attitude that has resulted in the suppression of the original theatrical versions of the first three films.

It is the second point that has caused lasting harm. It is also the source of much of the frustration and exasperation  for many of us on these boards. Because George has fallen in love with CGI/blue-screen film-making - considering it a superior form of the art, we do not have high quality versions of the theatrical releases of Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. This is also why a lot of us are bothered by the special editions.

Until George is convinced that the prequels and special editions are inferior films we will not see a new, high quality transfer of  the OOT.

twooffour said:

I've almost never encountered another user anywhere that also loved the silly droid antics in ROTS, yet I don't feel lonely

 I knew there was something I didn't like about you.

As I've said before, as movies, I don't hate the prequels.  I doubt that very many people on this forum "hate" the prequels.  Rather, I would guess that most of the posters here range from enjoying them to finding them rather laughably bad.  But hate?

No, the proper word is "resent".  I resent that the prequels are becoming the basis for multitudes of changes to my favorite movies, and that three of the greatest movies of all time may never be released in a decent format because someone believes that they should be permanently modified to match some inferior other movies.  So it's hard not to resent those other movies when little bits of them keep popping up and giving me the finger while I'm trying to watch a classic movie.

theprequelsrule said:

IMHO there are two distinct ways that the prequels have harmed Star Wars:

1. They were not good films
2. They are representative of an attitude that has resulted in the suppression of the original theatrical versions of the first three films.

 

It is the second point that has caused lasting harm. It is also the source of much of the frustration and exasperation  for many of us on these boards. Because George has fallen in love with CGI/blue-screen film-making - considering it a superior form of the art, we do not have high quality versions of the theatrical releases of Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. This is also why a lot of us are bothered by the special editions.

Until George is convinced that the prequels and special editions are inferior films we will not see a new, high quality transfer of  the OOT.

Hold it right there buddy.  The ONLY person responsible for the suppressing of the unaltered trilogy is George Lucas and GEORGE LUCAS alone.  Don't you dare try to blame that on the people who like the prequels.  

Darth Bizarro said:

theprequelsrule said:

IMHO there are two distinct ways that the prequels have harmed Star Wars:

1. They were not good films
2. They are representative of an attitude that has resulted in the suppression of the original theatrical versions of the first three films.

 

It is the second point that has caused lasting harm. It is also the source of much of the frustration and exasperation  for many of us on these boards. Because George has fallen in love with CGI/blue-screen film-making - considering it a superior form of the art, we do not have high quality versions of the theatrical releases of Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. This is also why a lot of us are bothered by the special editions.

Until George is convinced that the prequels and special editions are inferior films we will not see a new, high quality transfer of  the OOT.

Hold it right there buddy.  The ONLY person responsible for the suppressing of the unaltered trilogy is George Lucas and GEORGE LUCAS alone.  Don't you dare try to blame that on the people who like the prequels.  

I was blaming George - specifically his belief in the superiority of blue-screen filmmaking. The man thinks the prequels and SEs are great, and until he comes to believe that they are inferior to the OT we won't see the OOT properly restored.

It does not help that there are those who believe the prequels and SEs are quality films and support their existence financially by purchasing the products. If I knew we would have had no OOT on DVD in 2011 because of the success of those films I would never have gone to theatres in '97, '99, '02, and '05 to see them.