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EVERYONE MUST READ: Forum Rules (defunct)
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Jay
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Emperor
EVERYONE MUST READ: Forum Rules (defunct)
George Lucas has declared the original cuts as dead as Fredo, suggesting that fans of the originals seek out VHS or laserdisc copies.
Living in the real world as most of us do, it's not always economical for someone to buy an LD player and spend $100 on the THX "Faces" laserdiscs. Nor is it easy to find a copy of the widescreen VHS tapes in good condition.
If Mr. Lucas claims the original cuts no longer exist, the VHS and laserdisc editions are no longer in production, and there are no plans to release the original cuts in the future, I see nothing wrong with an underground effort to preserve the existing home video transfers and squeeze the most out of them as we can.
At the request of certain members, I've decided it's a good idea to have a separate section dedicated to preserving the trilogy. The purpose of this forum is to share your thoughts on existing alternative transfers and offer up your own experience in transferring these classic films to modern formats.
I've moved a large number of posts from the other forums to this one to try and get everything in one spot. Let me know if there are any stragglers that belong here and I'll move them over.
This forum is not here for you to sell any products.
Let me say that again: DO NOT POST BOOTLEGS FOR SALE HERE
The official rules as of 1-31-2006:
Preservation Forum Rules
Some of these rules may not jibe with posts currently on the boards. That's fine. Please observe the rules from now on though.
These rules are subject to change. If you notice this topic has been updated, click on it and read the rules again.
What we end up with may not be as polished as the official DVD release, but as anyone who believes in this site and its cause should know, it's the story that matters. And the story of Star Wars is told best by the original cuts.
Good luck in your efforts.
Living in the real world as most of us do, it's not always economical for someone to buy an LD player and spend $100 on the THX "Faces" laserdiscs. Nor is it easy to find a copy of the widescreen VHS tapes in good condition.
If Mr. Lucas claims the original cuts no longer exist, the VHS and laserdisc editions are no longer in production, and there are no plans to release the original cuts in the future, I see nothing wrong with an underground effort to preserve the existing home video transfers and squeeze the most out of them as we can.
At the request of certain members, I've decided it's a good idea to have a separate section dedicated to preserving the trilogy. The purpose of this forum is to share your thoughts on existing alternative transfers and offer up your own experience in transferring these classic films to modern formats.
I've moved a large number of posts from the other forums to this one to try and get everything in one spot. Let me know if there are any stragglers that belong here and I'll move them over.
This forum is not here for you to sell any products.
Let me say that again: DO NOT POST BOOTLEGS FOR SALE HERE
The official rules as of 1-31-2006:
Preservation Forum Rules
- Do not offer bootlegs for sale.
- Do not advertise sites that offer bootlegs for sale. Do not link to such sites or direct users to them.
- Do not post direct links to downloads.
- Do not discuss bootlegs of products currently available in general release, such as the 2004 DVD release. If you can obtain an official release through retail channels, do so. This includes official releases outside your local DVD region. NTSC/PAL conversions of currently available retail materials are not permitted. Buy a multi-region player. They're cheap. Members offering such material for download or distribution will be banned--permanently. (Updated 1-31-2006)
- The 1997 Special Editions are not to be discussed as possible backup material. I've decided the SEs are too close to the 2004 DVDs, and are more likely to cause problems with LFL and Fox than the O-OT. (Added 10-1-2004)
Some of these rules may not jibe with posts currently on the boards. That's fine. Please observe the rules from now on though.
These rules are subject to change. If you notice this topic has been updated, click on it and read the rules again.
What we end up with may not be as polished as the official DVD release, but as anyone who believes in this site and its cause should know, it's the story that matters. And the story of Star Wars is told best by the original cuts.
Good luck in your efforts.
Jay Sylvester
originaltrilogy.com
The things you pwn end up pwning you.
Pagz
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The Last Starfighter
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A quick question. As the 1997 Special Editions are now no longer in print on VHS or Laserdisc, are they also fair game for discussions of preservation? I just want to be clear on whether all previous versions of the OT preceeding the 2004 Editions, which are now the only versions of the film commercially available, are fair game.
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Jay
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Emperor
EVERYONE MUST READ: Forum Rules
My opinion on the 97 SEs is that they're so close to the 2004 cut I can't imagine someone preferring them. Why buy a bootleg of the 97 cuts when the video and (in most areas) the audio are so much better on the new DVD release? I suppose you could argue that the 2004 changes go too far (Hayden, Ian McD, etc.), but many would say the same thing about the 97 editions.
My logic may be flawed, but I see no justification for 97 SE bootlegs. Anybody who likes and prefers the SEs should be perfectly happy buying the DVD release.
My logic may be flawed, but I see no justification for 97 SE bootlegs. Anybody who likes and prefers the SEs should be perfectly happy buying the DVD release.
Jay Sylvester
originaltrilogy.com
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Pagz
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The Last Starfighter
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For me it's not so much an issue of preference as it is historical significance. Like it or not, the SE's occupy a unique and important role in the history of film. And considering it is no longer commercially available and has been replaced by a newer, more suped up version, the film historian in me would want a "complete" set of the saga to contain all 3 versions of the film. Like when you get a collection with multiple cuts of a film (theatrical cut, directors cut, european cut, etc...) For me it's fascinating to see the progression of a film through its various cuts. I may not like them, but that's beside the point. Anyway, just my thoughts on the issue.
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Jay
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Emperor
EVERYONE MUST READ: Forum Rules
I see your point and normally I'd agree with you, but I view a forum dedicated to the preservation of the O-OT via LD rips as a risky proposition. We're walking a very thin line.
The 97 SEs are much closer to the 2004 DVDs, and I think making copies of those laserdiscs will be more likely to draw the ire of LFL and Fox. I don't think it's a good idea.
I've added the "no SE bootlegs" rule to the list.
The 97 SEs are much closer to the 2004 DVDs, and I think making copies of those laserdiscs will be more likely to draw the ire of LFL and Fox. I don't think it's a good idea.
I've added the "no SE bootlegs" rule to the list.
Jay Sylvester
originaltrilogy.com
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DanielB
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I am ready for the trials!
EVERYONE MUST READ: Forum Rules
I agree, after seeing the 2004 DVD's there really aren't that many changes compared to the number that was made for the 1997 version; and although some people might say "they go too far" - Anyone who takes issue with the 2004 changes should too take issue with the 1997 changes. It's not really about closeness - but that the interest should remain in the original trilogy. There's a difference between this and say Blade runner which has had more cuts then you can shake a stick at. Most hollywood movies that are censored in America are released that way everywhere. Not the case here, there's the Theatrical cut - the American Theatrical cut, the Director's cut ... etc. But all were made from original material that was compiled when the movie was made. They may have been compiled at different times, but they all had the same material available to make each version - get my drift?
This isn't the case with ET and StarWars. They're altered, new material is used not just original material. It's like how the Noddy books have been censored. And that is censorship, because it's fudging the original material. That's what I take issue with. I do still think original material should be preserved in addition to director's cuts - but I don't think it's right to continue re-making the movie. If you want to make a re-make, start from scratch.
This isn't the case with ET and StarWars. They're altered, new material is used not just original material. It's like how the Noddy books have been censored. And that is censorship, because it's fudging the original material. That's what I take issue with. I do still think original material should be preserved in addition to director's cuts - but I don't think it's right to continue re-making the movie. If you want to make a re-make, start from scratch.
Molly
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U u uwa uwa...
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For one there's more, imho, to take offense to, in the '04 versions, and I like most of the '97 changes, and hate most of the '04 changes, because the '04 changes alter the storyline much more than the '97 ones.
Bt the way, I do own a legit copy of the SEs, but format reasons prevent their use in my projects...
Moll.
Bt the way, I do own a legit copy of the SEs, but format reasons prevent their use in my projects...
Moll.
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agr1170
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EVERYONE MUST READ: Forum Rules
Originally posted by: Pagz
For me it's not so much an issue of preference as it is historical significance. Like it or not, the SE's occupy a unique and important role in the history of film. And considering it is no longer commercially available and has been replaced by a newer, more suped up version, the film historian in me would want a "complete" set of the saga to contain all 3 versions of the film. Like when you get a collection with multiple cuts of a film (theatrical cut, directors cut, european cut, etc...) For me it's fascinating to see the progression of a film through its various cuts. I may not like them, but that's beside the point. Anyway, just my thoughts on the issue.
For me it's not so much an issue of preference as it is historical significance. Like it or not, the SE's occupy a unique and important role in the history of film. And considering it is no longer commercially available and has been replaced by a newer, more suped up version, the film historian in me would want a "complete" set of the saga to contain all 3 versions of the film. Like when you get a collection with multiple cuts of a film (theatrical cut, directors cut, european cut, etc...) For me it's fascinating to see the progression of a film through its various cuts. I may not like them, but that's beside the point. Anyway, just my thoughts on the issue.
You can get these on factory pressed DVDs from Ebay, I have a set I purchased (for the same reason, just to have them) from Ebay which are Factory Pressed 5 Star DVDs. Imports made from the 1997 SE Laser Disc set. It is top quality and sound. I still prefer the OOT to these or the 2004 set.
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MagnoliaFan
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The Chosen One
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Out of curiousity, since "alternate" versions was mentioned in the forum description, is discussion of Balance and CW okay in this forum?
MeBeJedi
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Jedi Master
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I don't see why not, since creating "alternate versions" have been mentioned in some of the threads here.
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.
MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.
JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.
MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.
JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
oojason
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Jedi Knight
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Jay - would it be possible to keep the TR47, Dr Gonzo, ISOMIX, Farsight, MeBeJedi, Zion version info threads, along with the 'official screenshots' thread pinned at the top of the page?
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Rikter
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Jedi Knight
EVERYONE MUST READ: Forum Rules
Originally posted by: oojason
Jay - would it be possible to keep the TR47, Dr Gonzo, ISOMIX, Farsight, MeBeJedi, Zion version info threads, along with the 'official screenshots' thread pinned at the top of the page?
Jay - would it be possible to keep the TR47, Dr Gonzo, ISOMIX, Farsight, MeBeJedi, Zion version info threads, along with the 'official screenshots' thread pinned at the top of the page?
Indeed
What has 'theology' ever said that is of the smallest use to anybody? When has 'theology' ever said anything that is demonstrably true and is not obvious? What makes you think that 'theology' is a subject at all? - Richard Dawkins
Jay
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Emperor
EVERYONE MUST READ: Forum Rules
Originally posted by: oojason
Jay - would it be possible to keep the TR47, Dr Gonzo, ISOMIX, Farsight, MeBeJedi, Zion version info threads, along with the 'official screenshots' thread pinned at the top of the page?
Jay - would it be possible to keep the TR47, Dr Gonzo, ISOMIX, Farsight, MeBeJedi, Zion version info threads, along with the 'official screenshots' thread pinned at the top of the page?
Done.
Jay Sylvester
originaltrilogy.com
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Rikter
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Jedi Knight
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Jay - YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!
What has 'theology' ever said that is of the smallest use to anybody? When has 'theology' ever said anything that is demonstrably true and is not obvious? What makes you think that 'theology' is a subject at all? - Richard Dawkins
oojason
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Jedi Knight
EVERYONE MUST READ: Forum Rules
Many thanks Jay
Could you pin the '***The "official" Screenshots thread ***' thread to the top too?
http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1326
Could you pin the '***The "official" Screenshots thread ***' thread to the top too?
http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1326
Justice For The 96
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oojason
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Jedi Knight
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Jay
and maybe pin these threads too...?
'StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread' ( http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1418 )
'**The Odyssey Collection**' ( http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1417 )
'***The MeBeJedi DVDs ***' ( http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1296 )
and the
'***The "ISOMIX" DVDs ***' ( http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1317 )
Many thanks Jay
and maybe pin these threads too...?
'StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread' ( http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1418 )
'**The Odyssey Collection**' ( http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1417 )
'***The MeBeJedi DVDs ***' ( http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1296 )
and the
'***The "ISOMIX" DVDs ***' ( http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1317 )
Many thanks Jay
Justice For The 96
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Metallaxis
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Padawan Learner
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I've just become a Padawan Learner in this forum to state my query about something "strange" I read in this thread.
You find the SE resembling to much to the 2004 DVD release, but you also find the OT much different from the SE.
That sounds strange, because in the 2004 release, nearly all changes appllied in SE are furthermore altered.
Greedo shoots at the same time with Han now, Han doesen't step on Jabba's tail, Luke does not scream while falling etc...
Furthermore, the Emperor is a different person now (in SE and OT he is the same), and the ghost of Anakin takes the form of young Hayden.
These two last alterations would make all the difference in the word to me, as both characters are key factors to the whole plot, even if they appear rarely (imagine the Godfather with a "revised" Vito Corleone instead of Marlon Brando).
Actually, in some points, the 2004 release has a tendency to "return" to the original script, as changes made in SE that were clearly mistaken were cleared out.
EG the scene of Luke screaming while falling (OT: Does not scream SE: screams 2004: Does not scream).
After all being said, I actually believe that the SE should be handled like the OT is, that meaning that either refering to both version backups should be permited or it should be prohibited for both.
You find the SE resembling to much to the 2004 DVD release, but you also find the OT much different from the SE.
That sounds strange, because in the 2004 release, nearly all changes appllied in SE are furthermore altered.
Greedo shoots at the same time with Han now, Han doesen't step on Jabba's tail, Luke does not scream while falling etc...
Furthermore, the Emperor is a different person now (in SE and OT he is the same), and the ghost of Anakin takes the form of young Hayden.
These two last alterations would make all the difference in the word to me, as both characters are key factors to the whole plot, even if they appear rarely (imagine the Godfather with a "revised" Vito Corleone instead of Marlon Brando).
Actually, in some points, the 2004 release has a tendency to "return" to the original script, as changes made in SE that were clearly mistaken were cleared out.
EG the scene of Luke screaming while falling (OT: Does not scream SE: screams 2004: Does not scream).
After all being said, I actually believe that the SE should be handled like the OT is, that meaning that either refering to both version backups should be permited or it should be prohibited for both.
And now, for your feature presentation:
The Classic Re-re-re-release of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back.
In this version the word "WOOKIE" has been changed to "HAIR CHALLENGED ANIMAL" and the entire cast has been digitally replaced by Ewoks.
The Classic Re-re-re-release of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back.
In this version the word "WOOKIE" has been changed to "HAIR CHALLENGED ANIMAL" and the entire cast has been digitally replaced by Ewoks.
ThatArtGuy
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I am ready for the trials!
EVERYONE MUST READ: Forum Rules
Original Trilogy means just that: Original Trilogy.
Is the SE the same as the Original Trilogy? No.
Is the 2004 DVD the same as the Original Trilogy? No.
The overwhelming majority of the people here want the Original Trilogy as it first appeared in the theater.
Is the SE the same as the Original Trilogy? No.
Is the 2004 DVD the same as the Original Trilogy? No.
The overwhelming majority of the people here want the Original Trilogy as it first appeared in the theater.
Metallaxis
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Padawan Learner
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You put it so plain and simply, that no one could argue with you. Of course you are right on that, I could not disagree, but that was not my point.
Yes, the majority of the people here want the OT, but there are some people (including me) who besides that, would like to have all the other versions, so they could make the comparison themselves. And since I live in a country where LD's were never sold (I might be the only Greek guy knowing the very existence of such medium), and where there is no availability of ANY version on ANY medium except the 2004 DVD's, I thought it would be nice to find any bootleg SE source in this forum.
Of course on the other hand, I respect the webmaster's concearn about the legal and copyright issues threatening this forum, so I will not present any more arguements.
Yes, the majority of the people here want the OT, but there are some people (including me) who besides that, would like to have all the other versions, so they could make the comparison themselves. And since I live in a country where LD's were never sold (I might be the only Greek guy knowing the very existence of such medium), and where there is no availability of ANY version on ANY medium except the 2004 DVD's, I thought it would be nice to find any bootleg SE source in this forum.
Of course on the other hand, I respect the webmaster's concearn about the legal and copyright issues threatening this forum, so I will not present any more arguements.
And now, for your feature presentation:
The Classic Re-re-re-release of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back.
In this version the word "WOOKIE" has been changed to "HAIR CHALLENGED ANIMAL" and the entire cast has been digitally replaced by Ewoks.
The Classic Re-re-re-release of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back.
In this version the word "WOOKIE" has been changed to "HAIR CHALLENGED ANIMAL" and the entire cast has been digitally replaced by Ewoks.
Darth Belan
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Padawan Learner
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Hi all.
I just wanted to comment on something that is mention in this thread. A couple of people have commented on the changes in the 2004 set, compared with the OT and 97 SE's, that went too far, specifically the emperor. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ian McD originally play the emperor in "Return of the Jedi"? I know it was a different person in "The Empire Strikes Back" (I believe it was an old woman, with Clive Revill's voice.) I don't think that this was a change that went too far since Ian was in the original theatrical release of ROTJ. In fact, I think it was the best thing he could've done to keep the continuity intact.
I just wanted to comment on something that is mention in this thread. A couple of people have commented on the changes in the 2004 set, compared with the OT and 97 SE's, that went too far, specifically the emperor. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ian McD originally play the emperor in "Return of the Jedi"? I know it was a different person in "The Empire Strikes Back" (I believe it was an old woman, with Clive Revill's voice.) I don't think that this was a change that went too far since Ian was in the original theatrical release of ROTJ. In fact, I think it was the best thing he could've done to keep the continuity intact.
Hardcore Legend
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Originally posted by: Darth Belan
Hi all.
I just wanted to comment on something that is mention in this thread. A couple of people have commented on the changes in the 2004 set, compared with the OT and 97 SE's, that went too far, specifically the emperor. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ian McD originally play the emperor in "Return of the Jedi"? I know it was a different person in "The Empire Strikes Back" (I believe it was an old woman, with Clive Revill's voice.) I don't think that this was a change that went too far since Ian was in the original theatrical release of ROTJ. In fact, I think it was the best thing he could've done to keep the continuity intact.
Hi all.
I just wanted to comment on something that is mention in this thread. A couple of people have commented on the changes in the 2004 set, compared with the OT and 97 SE's, that went too far, specifically the emperor. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ian McD originally play the emperor in "Return of the Jedi"? I know it was a different person in "The Empire Strikes Back" (I believe it was an old woman, with Clive Revill's voice.) I don't think that this was a change that went too far since Ian was in the original theatrical release of ROTJ. In fact, I think it was the best thing he could've done to keep the continuity intact.
Because they changed the dialogue.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
Darth Belan
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Padawan Learner
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Oops, forgot about that. I do remember reading about that. Goes to show you how long it's been since I've seen the OOT. Glad I found this site. I have copies of the OOT I made years ago on VHS, but they're starting to show thier ware. 
roweezy
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Padawan Learner
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since de-seing the official 2004 dvds has been allowed...what about just (color correction and other technical problems) on the 2004 dvds? of course anyone can do that on their own, but is discussion allowed on 'spit-shining the polished turds'? i wouldnt mind a proper/correct re-code of the 2004 dvds (ie w/out regard to 'correcting/fixing' the o-ot differences), so that way the unchanged frames (content-wise) can be (somewhat) comparable to the o-ot ld transfers (of the same specific frames).
Jay
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Emperor
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I view technical corrections to the 2004 DVDs as a fan edit of sorts, and since Lucas seems to have no problems with fan edits of the prequels, I don't see any problems playing around with the OT.
Jay Sylvester
originaltrilogy.com
The things you pwn end up pwning you.
theredbaron
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Jedi Knight
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Is it alright for me to discuss my rewrites of the Prequel Stories under the umbrella of 'Fan Edits'? So far, I've rewritten the story/screenplay of Episode I, and I'm currently working on Episode II. Once I've completed I, II, and III, I'll write scripts for them.
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EVERYONE MUST READ: Forum Rules (defunct)
EVERYONE MUST READ: Forum Rules (defunct)