3) Repeat for all of your video assets. Index with DGIndex and prepare your scripts. In my example DVD, the movie is case #1, but the extra is #5.

4) You need to figure out the bitrates for each asset.

The best way to do this is calculate how much space the original asset took up (video+audio+subtitles) as a percentage of the disc. (Get the numbers from your post-DVD Shrink disc, not the original.)

So for example if your original movie took up 3.88gb out of 4.03gb (discs aren't always full) you want it to use 3.88/4.03 = 96.3% of your final DVD (4.37gb/4482mb for a DVD5, 7.95gb/8144mb for a DVD9). (1gb = 1024mb)

That's .963 * 4.37 = 4.20gb or 4308mb in my example.

This math also works if your original is a DVD9 and you're going to a DVD5.

Grab VideoHelp's bitrate calculator: http://www.videohelp.com/tools/VideoHelp_Bitrate_calculator and click the "Advanced" button.

Plug in the length for your new video (if you're changing the playback speed, get this number from your AviSynth script by playing it in a media player or VirtualDub).

Set the “Audio Bitrate” to account for all audio tracks you are keeping. If you have multiple streams of different bitrates, you may have to be creative. (192kbps + 448kbps = 1 Track of 640 kbps or 2 Tracks of 320 kbps)

Set the ISO __ MB/DVD to 0 (you will have to account for those 25MB of overhead, just not more than once.)

Set "Custom Size" for the DVD to reflect the number you just calculated. Still 4308mb in my example.

Now this won't be perfect. If you've removed audio streams, it will account for that and you'll use that extra space.

You will be re-encoding the menus, and if you stripped other clips or content from the disc, you'll have more wiggle room and can go a little higher.

Your encoding software will also need a maximum bitrate. Max bitrate is shown on the calculator, and in theory 9800kbit/s is the max total allowable for a DVD. I prefer to give extra headroom. Subtitles or variable bitrate spikes can take you too high. I usually subtract about 300-800kbps from the maximum calculated here and never use higher than 8800kbps.

5) I prefer CCE for video encoding, but use what you like as long as it can handle AVS files.

Make sure you keep straight which of your videos are widescreen, fullscreen, interlaced, progressive, 23.976, 25 or 29.97 and set your encoder accordingly.

You shouldn't need more than 3-5 passes, or you can try OPV as long as you don’t exceed your target bitrate.

6) With DGPulldown, add pulldown flags as needed.

Case 1: “23.976-->29.97”

Case 2, 3 & 5: “25-->29.97”

Case 4 & 6: No pulldown is needed.

Browse to your encoded video file. A destination file name will be automatically chosen.

Click the button that corresponds to the pulldown you need and click the Convert button.

7) Repeat for all your video assets.

Part III – Converting the Audio

0) If you movie is case #1 it needs to be slowed down and re-encoded. For all other cases, just go to Part IV.

1) Find out all you can about your audio.

If your source is PCM (rare) and you want to keep it that way you can (just skip step 3), or you can re-encode to Dolby Digital (don’t skip any steps).

If your source is DTS you can either re-encode to high bitrate AC3 (Dolby Digital @ 640kbps is considered comparable to DTS @ 768kbps) or convert DTS to DTS. Either way, you’ll still need to slow the audio as shown in steps 2 and 3.

I won’t cover the specifics but for DTS to AC3.  (See Appendix A for more info.)

For Dolby Digital you can get information on the file in a few ways. One is to play it in a directshow player that lets you view codec properties. Open up details for AC3Filter and click to the SPDIF tab. There you can view decoder information. Scrolling down and you’ll see the bitrate, number of channels, clev (center mix), slev (surround mix) and dialnorm (dialog normalization). Write these numbers down.

You can get the same info in Sonic Foundry Soft Encode by opening the AC3 file in 'frame view'. Here you may see additional information. Make a note of whatever you find.

I prefer Sonic Foundry Soft Encode for Dolby encoding which means using an intermediate wave file. If you are a fan of BeLight/BeSweet, you can do this all in one step and go from AC3 to AC3.

2) Decode to a wave file with BeLight.

File (menu)/Add Files to Load the PAL audio, click the WAV/PCM tab and click the "WAV" button as well as "16 Bits (Six) Mono Waves".

If your source is stereo, use "16 Bit Stereo" instead.

If the source is 1-channel mono, you can keep it as 1 channel, but I feel it’s more professional to use “16 Bit Stereo” to make it a 2-channel mono track

Don't select any SSRC, Boost, resampling etc. You want this as untouched as possible. Check the "(Azid) Dynamic Compression" and "Mode" buttons, but don't worry about the specific settings, we'll deal with that later.

Click the Advanced Settings button. Under SoundTouch, check the "Covert Frame Rate from ... to ... fps" button and enter: 25000 and 23976 in the boxes. Uncheck everything else (except perhaps the Output Log File if you want it). Click Ok.

Click “View or Edit BeSweet Command Line” and verify your settings, which should look like this (but may be wrong since BeLight is quirky):

"C:\BeLight\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "c:\work folder\VTS_03_1 - 0x80 - Audio - AC3 - 2ch - 48kHz - DRC - DELAY 0ms.AC3" -output "c:\work folder\VTS_03_1 - 0x80 - Audio - AC3 - 2ch - 48kHz - DRC - DELAY 0ms.wav" -6ch -azid( -c normal ) -ota( -hybridgain -r 25000 23976 )

Now make a these changes:

Where it says: "-azid (-c normal)", change it to read: "-azid (-c none)".

Where it says: "-ota( -hybridgain -r 25000 23976 )", change it to read: "-ota( -r 25000 23976 )".

(Gain type may vary, just remove it.)

This prevents the volume from being maximized or dynamically altered.

You should now have:

"C:\BeLight\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "c:\work folder\VTS_03_1 - 0x80 - Audio - AC3 - 2ch - 48kHz - DRC - DELAY 0ms.AC3" -output "c:\work folder\VTS_03_1 - 0x80 - Audio - AC3 - 2ch - 48kHz - DRC - DELAY 0ms.wav" -6ch -azid( -c none ) -ota( -r 25000 23976 )

Click Run and wait a long while.

Note: If you prefer to encode directly to AC3 instead of using 16 Bit (Six) Mono Waves, click the AC3 tab, select Stereo or 5.1, use Aften (pretty good quality I’m told), click Bitrate, and move the slider to the bitrate you want (you’ll probably want to match the original).

When you edit the Command Line (as detailed above), make sure you give your output file a different name than your input file or nothing will happen.

3) Encode back to Dolby Digital with Soft Encode.

File (menu)/Open your 6 Mono Wave files (or single Stereo Wave file).

Make sure your channels match up. If your source was stereo or mono it should automatically be mapped correctly.

The six mono files each have had their names appended with C, FL, FR, LFE, SL, or SR representing Center, Front Left, Front Right, Low Frequency Effects, Surround Left and Surround Right respectively.

On the left side for each channel you’ll see a mini representation of speaker positions. Click the speaker position that corresponds to each file’s extension.

Go to Options (menu)/Encode Settings.

On the left is the “Audio service configuration”.

The Data Rate is your bitrate. It’s best to use the same or better than the original PAL file to prevent further degradation (Dolby Digital is a lossy format).

Audio coding mode is the speaker configuration. It’s in the format of Front/Rear. So 2/0 is 2 front speakers, no rear speakers (stereo) and 3/2 is 3 front speakers and 2 rear speakers (5.0). Check the LFE enable if you are using 5.1 (or 4.1, etc).

Set the Dialog normalization to the number you found Step 1 of Part III.

If your source was not originally AC3, you’ll want to read the guide’s http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=332259#poststop section on “Referencing Volume to a Known Level - Dialogue Normalization”.

On the right side under the Bit Stream tab, fill in all the settings to match the original mix. I’ve found no point to the copyright bit and original bit stream options so feel free to ignore them.

Click the Preprocessing tab. Uncheck everything here. You can set the Surround channel processing options if you know you need to, but otherwise forget it.

If your source was DTS or PCM you’ll probably want to use Soft Encode’s help file suggested settings.

Dynamic range compression should be Film:Standard for pretty much all movies. You can use Film:Light if you have a generally quite movie with little variation in volume throughout. (I have yet to find any software that can read the original file’s Compression characteristic so that’s our scientific method.)

Click OK to close the Encode settings then File (menu)/Encode and pick a file name, click save and wait while Soft Encode does its thing.

4) Repeat for all audio assets.

Part IV - Subtitles

0) Install VSFilter (if you don’t already have it). It includes the tools VobSub Configure and VobSubCutter.

1) Rip the subtitles in idx/sub format with VobSub

Load Vobsub Configure, click Open, click the drop down menu “Files of type:” to say “Ifo and Vobs, for creating idx/sub (*.ifo)”. Select the IFO of the first movie on your PAL DVD.

You’ll be asked to pick a save location. Pick one and click OK.

In the top left scroll box pick the program chain (PGC) that corresponds to the one you ripped in DVD Decrypter.

By default all found sub streams will be selected as well as the cells.

Do not remove any subtitles from the list, just click OK and wait while it indexes the subs.

2) For case 1 video the subtitles, like the audio, need to be slowed down. For all other cases skip to step 3.

Open the IDX or SUB file in VobSub Cutter.

Uncheck 'Modify Time Stamp Count From Start'. Check 'Modify FPS', Original = 25, and New = 23.976. Click Save As and save your NTSC timed subtitles.

3) Using SubToSup click File/Open (or the “…” button) and select the NTSC timed idx file. It will automatically be saved with no further prompting in SUP format.

4) Repeat for all PGCs. Don’t forget your extras can have subtitles as well.

Note: This method does not resize the subpictures, it only re-times them. In theory it’s possible that there will be some aspect ratio distortion, but I’ve never seen it. I suspect it’s because, regardless of lines of resolution, the aspect ratio of the TVs are consistent, whether PAL or NTSC.

What IS important is we will later shift the subpictures up or down to be displayed in the correct position. If we don’t, they may be placed off the screen.

In some rare instances subtitles may be positioned somewhere specific on the screen (as opposed to just the top or bottom). If you find any of these malpositioned titles you can move them manually (and individually) with DVDSubEdit later on.

In the worst case scenario, you may find a single subpicture frame that has text at the top AND bottom of the screen at the same time. There is no way to reposition it since either the top or bottom will be off the screen.

This requires a special, more difficult method of conversion where the individual pictures must be resized. This method is outlined in Appendix B.

Part V - Chapters

The reason we ripped CCE Cell Information rather than Chapters is because there can be more cells than chapters. This can be done because a DVD extra wants to be able to jump to a certain position, or to help place a layer break.

In order to keep things where they belong we’ll be using the cells.

1) Open the Cell Information in Notepad and Click Edit (Menu)/Replace.

For “Find what:” enter ‘chapter=’ (no quotes). Leave “Replace with:” blank.

Click “Replace All”.

Repeat the replace process with a ‘:’ (again no quotes) for “Find What” and “Replace” still blank.

You should now have a list of only numbers.

Click File (menu)/Save and close Notepad.

2) All those numbers now need to be corrected.

Case 1 needs to be multiplied by 1.25. This can be done manually or using this XL spreadsheet: http://www.mediafire.com/?jogaymnnywe

All other cases need to be multiplied by 1.1988.  Here is a spreadsheet for that: http://www.mediafire.com/?hqnnm1nenzy

Copy and paste the list of cell times into the left column. Copy the new cell times from the right column.

Paste these into a new text file and save it.

Part VI – Menus

NuMenu4u was developed for re-encoding menus of DVDs before good quality integrated options were available for DVD9 to DVD5 conversion. It was used in conjunction with other software to semi-manually re-encode and rebuild DVDs.

Unfortunately it is disappearing into oblivion. The basic free edition requires commercial authoring package Scenarist. The full registered VIP version supports the free/cheap Muxman.

I will assume you will have found the registered version somewhere.

0) NuMenu4u can be a bit overwhelming at first. Here is a good guide for configuring it properly: http://www.doom9.org/mpg/big3-preperation.htm#NuMenu4u

You’ll need to point NuMenu4u to your video encoder, audio encoder, and authoring software. For the rest you can probably get away with the default settings, and let the wizard configure everything for you.

1) Open NuMenu4u. Click Wizard (menu).

Check “Convert Format (PAL -> NTSC / NTSC -> PAL)”, and “Use Muxman for authoring instead of Scenarist”.

Select the drive of your mounted image and click Next. In theory NuMenu4u can work with a ripped folder, but I’ve never been able to successfully accomplish that.

Click the disc icon and select an output directory for the converted menus. Click Next.

Select a preferred Language and click Next.

The Minimum Menu Size to Process option is unimportant since all menus will be re-encoded. Just click Next.

Select your preferred video encoder. You have lots of options. Cinema Craft Encoder 2.70 SP works fine. Click Next.

If you want you can click the “Show Advanced Encoder Settings” and tweak some options. I like to use One Pass VBR with the Q set to 10, but you have plenty of options to choose from.

Click Next, then “Press to Start Processing”.

It will beep, flash, open and close loads of windows and programs and generally go nuts. Go get a drink or something because you won’t be able to do much else with your PC while this is going on.

When it’s finished it will close itself and you’ll hopefully (among other things) have a VIDEO_TS folder in the directory you indicated. Feel free to delete everything except the VIDEO_TS foler.

Part VII – Rebuild (finally)

1) Load MuxMan.

Under Video, click ‘browse’ and locate your recoded video file.

The “Video Multi-File Manager” will open. Just click the “Close” button at the bottom right.

Under Audio, click ‘browse’ and locate your recoded audio file.

The “Video Multi-File Manager” will open. Just click the “Close” button at the bottom right. You can set the Language and Extension, but these will be replaced later when you rebuild the disc. Set the Delay (in ms) if there was any noted in the ripped file’s name.

If you have more audio streams to add, click the up arrow by “Stream:”. You can then browse for your next file. Repeat as needed.

Under SubPictures, click ‘browse’ and locate your recoded SUP file.

The “Video Multi-File Manager” will open. Just click the “Close” button at the bottom right. Again you can set the Language and Extension, but it’s not necessary. If you video is widescreen, click the “LB” and “Wide” buttons (unless you have separate LB and Wide SUP files, then just select the one you need).

If you have more subtitle streams to add, click the up arrow by “Stream:”. You can then browse for your next file. Repeat as needed.

Click File (menu)/Import Chapter. Browse and select your retimed cell time list.

Browse, create/select an output folder, and click “Start”.

Note: If your last cell is right at the end of your movie (used for chapter skipping to the end), you will receive an error saying "reference to non-existant scene". That’s because the final chapter is too small.

Reload your cell times and subtract 30 from the final number. This will make the last chapter a little more than a second and should work fine.

2) Repeat for all the PGCs you’ve re-encoded.

3) Open VobBlanker.

Under “Input Video Manager (VIDEO_TS.IFO)” click Browse and locate your NuMenu4u authored files. Click down to VIDEO_TS and select the VIDEO_TS.IFO file. Click Open.

You will get an error. That’s fine because there aren’t any video files yet.

Under “Output Folder” click Browse. The folder you select will be the final DVD unless you make further optional changes.

Under the TitleSet list, you will see that each of the VTS’s list the Video Format as PAL 720x576.

For each of these you will Right-Click and select “Video Attrib”.

This will open the Video Attributes settings. Where it says “Standard”, click the NTSC button. Click OK to close the attributes window. It will ask if you’re sure, click Yes.

Now click the first VTS (VTS_01_*.VOB) in the TitleSet list. You will see a list of PGCs in the bottom window.

Click the first PGC in the list “PGCs in Selected TitleSet”. Click the Replace button to the right.

Navigate to the corresponding MuxMan’ed folder, and select the VTS_01_0.IFO in that folder. Click Open.

If you’ve converted the video from letterboxed to anamorphic wide you will receive a dialog asking if you want to correct the IFO. Click Yes.

Repeat this process for each PGC in each titleset.

For any PGC’s you’ve decided to get rid of, instead of clicking Replace, click the “Blank” button.

Once you’ve either replaced or blanked every PGC, click “PROCESS!!” and wait.

Close and quit VobBlanker.

Part VIII - Final Tweaks

1) Reposition subtitles with DVDSubEdit.

NOTE: Currently you must use version 1.41 or older.  A bug in more recent versions prevents you from moving titles that are too far out of frame.  I'm told the author is looking into it.

Load DVDSubEdit. Select File (menu)/Open full domain.

Navigate to your final NTSC DVD’s directory and select the first VOB of your first VTS that has subtitles. In my example it’s VTS1 so I open VS_01_1.VOB (don’t select any that end in “0”, those are menus). Click Open.

Once the program has scanned the entire titleset, go to the section that says “Subpic vertical position”.

Click on the drop down menu and select the appropriate margins. This will shift the titles up or down so they fit on the screen.

If you have the same subtitle for widescreen (16x9) and letterbox (4x3) viewing, “4:3 safe area” is a good setting. It sets the borders 10% of the distance from the top/bottom. This way the titles won't be lost in the overscan area.  10% allows the titles to fall within the black borders on a 4x3 display while still being safe for 16x9 viewing.

If you have separate widescreen and letterbox subtitles, DVDSubEdit lets you preview and set each stream separately. Select a subpicture by using the top/right most drop down box (in the "Subpic selection" section), and the preview format using the far left drop down box (just above the "Current subpic info").

If your video is letterboxed and you've kept it letterboxed, use the "16:9 already letterboxed" setting. This allows a 16x9 display viewer to zoom the picture to fill the screen without losing the subtitles.

Click Edit (Menu)/Apply last modification to all.

By default this will repositions all titles in all Subpicture streams. The program will automatically check the boxes for the change you made.

Click “DO IT!”.

If you get an error telling you it can’t reposition the title, you will need to convert the subtitles using the method in Appendix B. This is because there is at least one image with content at the top and bottom of the screen. It has to be resized, not repositioned.

If you want to make sure everything worked you can drag the slider under the preview window.

Now click File (menu)/Save All Modifications. It will ask if you are sure because this will save over the original files. Click OK.

Repeat for all VTS that have subtitles.

2) If your DVD is more than 5-10% undersized you may want to go back and re-encode one or more of your assets at a higher bitrate.

If your DVD is around 5% oversized, using DVD Shrink on it will have a negligible impact on quality. Any more and I’d recommend stripping something or re-encoding some assets at a lower bitrate.

3) (Optional) DVDRemake Pro http://www.dimadsoft.com/dvdremakepro/index.php

This is a really nice program that lets you change just about anything about a DVD.

If you have a menu that’s not in English (or the language you want), you can save a still image of it, change the text then reimport it.

You can also completely delete buttons so people don’t try to select content that you stripped.

Other considerations:

Your original DVD may contain PC, DVD_ROM or JACKET_P content.

Feel free to copy any or all of this to your new disc.

JACKET_P is cover art used by some players. There will be three files in the folder, a small, medium and large resolution video file that contain a still picture. These need to be converted to NTSC as well.

This guide should help you get started: http://forum.videohelp.com/topic232001.html

Appendix A: DTS to DTS Conversion

While I won’t go into the details, KpeX at the Doom9 forums wrote a nice FAQ on DTS audio. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=424069#post424069

3. How can I transcode a DTS file?

 

Azidts http://www.doom9.org/software2.htm#audio can be used to transcode DTS with BeSweet (Note that you'll need WinDVD Platinum installed) or with one of the BeSweet GUIs (eg. OagMachine). The Hypercube Transcoder http://hypercube.is.dreaming.org/ supports DTS transcoding as well. One could also use DTSdec (assuming a large amount of HD space) to decode to wav and then encode to any desired format.

Recent versions of foobar2000 http://www.foobar2000.org/support DTS playback and transcoding to any of fb2k's many output formats. Thanks to Kurtnoise there is an easy guide on transcoding DTS with fb2k http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=566664#post566664 to a variety of formats.

4. Is it possible to encode DTS with BeSweet?

Yes, but you'll also need Surcode CD/DVD Pro, which encodes DTS. Please see Q32 of the Besweet FAQ. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15738

Appendix B: Alternate Subtitle Conversion

If you run into an instance where just repositioning subtitles doesn't work for you a more aggressive approach is needed.

1) Rip the subtitles in idx/sub format with VobSub

Load Vobsub Configure, click Open, click the drop down menu “Files of type:” to say “Ifo and Vobs, for creating idx/sub (*.ifo)”. Select the IFO of the first movie on your PAL DVD.

You’ll be asked to pick a save location. Pick one and click OK.

In the top left scroll box, pick the program chain (PGC) that corresponds to the one you ripped in DVD Decrypter.

By default all found sub streams will be selected as well as the cells.

Do not remove any subtitles from the list, but make a note of the 2 digit numbers associated with each subtitle, these are the ID numbers and you'll need them later.

Click OK and wait while it indexes the subs.

2) For case 1 video the subtitles, like the audio, needs to be slowed down. For all other cases skip to step 3.

Open the IDX or SUB file in VobSub Cutter.

Uncheck 'Modify Time Stamp Count From Start'. Check 'Modify FPS', Original = 25, and New = 23.976. Click Save As and save your NTSC timed subtitles.

3) Convert VobSub (idx/sub) files to .SON format using VSCONV.

Open a command window in Windows by clicking "Start" and "Run".

Type "cmd" (no quotes) and click "OK".

Create a new folder for the subtitles since it generates a very large number of files.

At your command line type:

"c:\vsconv directory\VSCONV.EXE" -f maestro -id 0 -i "c:\Working Files Directory\VTS_01_0" -o "c:\New Folder\Sub00"

Include the quotes as shown, replace directory names with the ones you are using, and the VTS number with the correct one for your idx/sub file.

Don't be surprised to have upwards of 1000 files in your new directory.

If you have more than one subtitle you will have to repeat this for each ID number you noted in Step 1. Make sure you use a new name for each one.

That is:

"c:\vsconv directory\VSCONV.EXE" -f maestro -id 0 -i "c:\Working Files Directory\VTS_01_0" -o "c:\New Folder\Sub00"

"c:\vsconv directory\VSCONV.EXE" -f maestro -id 1 -i "c:\Working Files Directory\VTS_01_0" -o "c:\New Folder\Sub01"

"c:\vsconv directory\VSCONV.EXE" -f maestro -id 2 -i "c:\Working Files Directory\VTS_01_0" -o "c:\New Folder\Sub02"

4) Resize BMP files.

Open PhotoFiltre. Select Tools (menu)/Automate-Batch

Set the "Source folder:" to your folder full of BMP files (it will select all the files automatically).

Set the "Source format:" to "BMP (*.bmp;*.dib;*.rle)

Set the "Output folder:" to the SAME folder (this will overwrite the old images).

Set the "Output format:" to "Bitmap (*.bmp).

Set the "Color count:" to "16 colors".

Click the "Image" tab, and click the "Image size" box. (You will get a warning that the original files will be overwritten. Click OK.)

Enter for the Width: 720 and Height: 478. Leave the Unit to pixels.

Uncheck "Preserve Aspect ratio" and uncheck "Optimize".

Click the "Action" tab, then the "OK" button at the bottom and wait while it does its thing.

5) Convert back to SUP format.

Run Son2VSub.EXE.

Click on the "..." button to the right of the "Input filename:".

Navigate to your working subtitle folder and you'll see files named Sub00.SON, one for each language you're converting.

Click the first one and it will automatically till the rest of the fields.

You may want to click the "..." to the right of the "Output file:" name and relocate/rename the new file because your working directory is probably pretty cluttered.

Width and Height should default to 720 and 480.

For the FPS use 25 since it thinks the source is PAL and we don't want to change the playback speed.

Click "Covnert" and repeat for all subtitles you have an ID number for.

6) Using SubToSup click File/Open (or the “…” button) and select your new IDX file (Sub00.idx). It will automatically be saved with no further prompting in SUP format.

Move and/or rename the new file, since any consecutive .SUP files created by SubToSup will have the name "SubTitle-ID_--_0x20.sup" as well.

Repeat for all language streams (Sub00.idx, Sub01.idx, etc).

Note: It's important to keep track of which ID numbers have what final name since you'll need to reauthor with the tracks being added back in the same order.

7) Repeat for all PGCs (as needed). Don’t forget your extras can have subtitles as well.

You will NOT have to reposition your titles with DVDSubEdit (Part VIII, Step 1).

If you find any errors (technical, grammatical...), have any suggestions or run into any problems, please let me know. I'd like this guide to be as complete and accurate as possible.

PLEASE DO NOT CROSS POST THIS ANYWHERE ELSE. IT IS AN OT FORUMS EXCLUSIVE.

Thanks Alot for this DrM,I can really use some help on converting and including subs now,this will really help on alot of Custom's I am currently working on,and I am always open for new techniques,so I will read through all of it.

Thanks again

Amazing work, Dr. M.

@Possessed: I think you missed the point of this thread.

Doctor M said:

@Possessed: I think you missed the point of this thread.

 

I think you are right.

I've been playing around with programs that rip the celltimes.  There seems to be no accurate software for doing this and I'm not sure I understand why.

I tried ChapterXtractor, DVDDecrypter, PGCDemux and IFOEdit.

IFOEdit and PGCDemux produce the same results.  ChapterXtractor will generate matching results if you force it to display all cells and set it to 30fps (instead of the 29.97 default), but it may skip the last celltime. (This is when ripping from an NTSC disc not PAL).

The movie I was testing this with was only a frame or so off for chapters using the PGCDemux cells, which were much closer than the DVDDecrypter list which was just plain wrong.

I dunno what the situation is with DVDDecrypter, I'll play a bit more, BUT I'm going to update the guide in the next few days removing DVDDecrypter as the ripper of choice.

Edit: Or not.  It would seem the error creeps in ONLY in NTSC celltimes.

On PAL DVDs, DVDDecrypter and PGCDemux produce the same results (with PGCDemux on the default settings).

The guide is fine as it is, but I recommend using PGCDemux if you're working with NTSC celltimes.

3/25/2009: Expanded and changed recommended settings in the section for DVDSubEdit.  Better placement for 16x9 vs 4x3 displays explained.

3/26/2009: Corrected and clarified my clarifications from yesterday.

Edit: And a quick edit.  Mistakenly referred to 5% being safe for subtitles.  I meant 10%.  That's fixed now too.

3/29/2009: Discovered bug in more recent versions of DVDSubEdit.  Guide now recommends only v1.41 and older until it's fixed.

Any new updates DrM or is this 100% good to go now?

Lol. Good timing.

I've been working on a conversion today and making some tweaks to the guide while I was at it.

So far I've commented on DVDShrink stripping layerbreaks and P-UOPs.  The 25i script has been updated (suggesting some alternate filters, methods and it previously reversed the field order (oops)).

Things I've noticed that still need to be updated:

A comment on letting BeLight adjust for audio delays (if you ripped with DVD Decrypter, BeLight will read the delay and automatically set itself to correct it).

Possibly a recalculation for stream delays to reflect the slowdown (though the difference would be microscopic for anything less than 1000ms).

Further info on what to do if there are subs at the top AND bottom of the screen (I described it to you in a PM.  Appendix B still covers any problems there anyway.)

On the whole the changes are minor, wouldn't effect all discs and even if you didn't do any of it probably would have no noticeable effect on your finished DVD.

I suspect this guide will never be 100% done, but it's in very good condition right now.  Give it a go.  If you have any problems contact me.

Hmm.  I had some problems with NuMenu4U tonight... but then again I always do.  It's a pretty screwy program, but I've found nothing else that does the same thing.

First, I had to reauthor the disc with DVDRemakePro before it would successfully recode the menus... and even then I found that the audio was sped up to a comical pitch after conversion.

I don't know if it was a default setting I changed or not.  It converted the menus from 25 to 29.97 by using AssumeFPS(29.97) and speeding up the audio to match.

DJ, if you get a chance could you tell me the settings you see when you select AviSynth (Menu)/Show Format Conversion Script Editor?

Just the duration buttons at the bottom.  I had it set to "Keep all frames - Video length will be different and Audio will be adjusted".

The other option "Drop/Add Frames to keep Video/Audio length the same" worked better.  I never noticed a problem before, but I definitely did tonight.

Ok, time to eat a big hunk o' crow.

I'll be the first to admit that the celltime recalculations always made my brains hurt, but working with them today I realized that my math was completely wrong.

For Case 1 video (the most common) you multiply by a factor of 1.25.  I had wrongly assumed that this was true for most of the other cases.  After playing around with some files today it turns out Case 1 is the exception.  Cases 2-6 need a factor of 1.2 (I think).

I've never noticed my error before now because by and large cases 2-6 occur in trailers and stuff where there are few if any chapters and the content is short enough that it isn't a large enough discrepancy.

Now I may still be completely wrong and if anyone has a firmer grasp on this please chime in.  For now I recommend you check that the chapters are in the right locations after conversion.

Edit: Or not.  I'm really up against it here and I'm hoping the Doom9 guys can thrash it out.

The problem is I'm seeing a several second discrepancy now in the chapter locations and runtime (even though the audio syncs). 
Something very odd is going on that I mean to find out about.

THIS ONLY applies to cases where you are using 25 to 29.97 pulldown.

Edit 2: Ok, or NOT.  Here's the deal, case 1 which you are essentially using 23.976 to 29.97 pulldown is a multiplier of 1.25.  ALL OTHER cases require a multiplier of 1.1988. 
The guide and spreadsheets have been updated accordingly.

Interestingly I discovered another type of PAL video today.

A DVD extra I was converting was originally 24p, but converted to 25i by adding 1 duplicate frame per second and then interlacing.

I won't be adding it to the guide since it was a bit of a mess and I don't know how often they actually pop up like this.

My script was:

telecide(guide=2).fdecimate(rate=23.976)

It's not perfect, there were some interlace artifacts left behind, but I can't think of a better way to do it.