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Credits & Leaders Thread
Credits & Leaders Thread :: 1 < 2 > 3
negative1
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negative1will have more data on this shortly..
including all the headers/trailers for esb, and sw.
none, check your pm.
later
-1
[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]
none
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As mentioned above, below is the ESB Credits from a 35mm print. (Thanks to -1/cinch/ebrown.) On quick initial review, they match the ESB 1980 Theater Performance Recording provided by Video_Collector and the 2006 GOUT.
negative1 -------------------- V_C ESB_TP ------------------- 2006 GOUT
none
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Star Wars super8mm Reel 1 Lead-in (silent w/ alt track) - jskujins2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbe-RsOHwsE
RD? -> 10/13 77 -> HEAD -> (dot) -> PICTURE -> SMPTE UNIVERSAL LEADER -> XXXX -> SMPTE UNIVERSAL LEADER -> REEL NO. PROD. NO. PLAY DATE -> DEL 173745 -> FOX TRADEMARK Log Version (2') 1:2? Fln't? Inteieg -> (circle) -> (arrow) CUT IERT? -> (specialized Star Wars credits)
Star Wars super8mm Reel 1 Lead-out (silent w/ alt track) - jskujins2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbe-RsOHwsE THE END -> 5 -> HH
Star Wars super8mm Reel 1 Lead-out (silent w/ alt track) - jskujins2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbe-RsOHwsE
Subtitles: 001 - In Ben Kenobi's dwelling 002 - Ben reveals that Luke's father was a Jedi Knight 003 - And gives Luke his father's old light saber. 004 - R2D2 reveals a message 005 - stored in him by Princess Leia 006 - who asks Ben to save the rebellion 007 - from the evil Empire. 008 - Ben tells Luke he must help save the princess. 009 - Luke is torn 010 - between his responsibilities at home 011 - and his need to join the rebellion 012 - and fulfill his destiny. 013 - In the Death Star 014 - Han Solo, Chewbacca 015 - the rescued Princess Leia and Luke 016 - must get to Hon's ship 017 - The robots see their chance. 018 - Imperial ships are following them. 019 - They prepare for battle 020 - They're safe ... for now.
Notes: I believe the opening pen script is the creation date of this print: October 13th, 1977.
The credits are before the movie.
Mentioned in: http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006532
none
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Star Wars super8mm Reel 1 Lead-in - phoneval : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj6Kl4DKPvM Aleh? -> STAR WARS LONG VER -> ?K? -> ?WARS? -> RECORD -> SCAN? START -> (diamond) -> 11 -> (diamond) -> 10 -> (diamond) -> 9 -> (diamond) -> 8 -> (diamond) -> 7 -> (diamond) -> 6 -> (diamond) -> 5 -> (arrow) -> 3 (with red, green blue stripes) -> (line) -> (arrow) -> 3 -> 20th Century Fox Logo -> A LUCASFILM LIMITED Productions -> STAR WARS
Star Wars super8mm Reel 1 Lead-out - phoneval : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj6Kl4DKPvM (normal credits) -> MUSIC BY JOHN WILLIAMS -> STAR WARS COPYRIGHT 1977 TWENTIETH CENTURY FOX FILM PRODUCTION ALL RIGHTS RESERVED -> THIN? -> DEL? 8043? -> ILM -> STAR WARS -> R-5 (crossed out) -> 5B (crossed out) -> KEN FILMS LONG VERSION -> STAR WARS -> For Star Wars -> (crossed out) -> Del#? 180829 -> Sound? & Long Ste??? -> #1A -> PICTURE -> (dot) -> FOOT -> No Lor? Picture -> Subject -> NE ->
none
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Star Wars super8mm Spanish Reel 1 Lead-in - phoneval : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cznPI2IcuE START -> BERGEN -> (diamond) -> 11 -> (diamond) -> 10 -> (diamond) -> 9 -> (diamond) -> 8 -> (diamond) -> 7 -> (diamond) -> 6 -> (diamond) -> 5 -> 4 or A over color stripes -> (arrow) -> 4 -> 3 -> 20th Century Fox Logo -> A LUCASFILM LIMITED Production -> STAR WARS
Star Wars super8mm Spanish Reel 1 Lead-out - phoneval : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cznPI2IcuE (Star Wars credits) -> The End -> BERGEN # 26 - COLOR - SOUND -> STAR
none
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Star Wars super8mm Reel 1 Lead-in - GhostHost1969 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJEBqxUQ9WU
Star Wars super8mm Reel 1 Lead-out - GhostHost1969 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJEBqxUQ9WU
Star Wars super8mm Reel 2 Lead-in - GhostHost1969 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cffiXJLbsT0
Star Wars super8mm Reel 2 Lead-out - GhostHost1969 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cffiXJLbsT0 (Star Wars credits) -> The End -> BERGEN #9 - COLOR - SO(und)
Star Wars super8mm Digests Reel 1 Lead-out - GhostHost1969 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-WKaoyUgAQ (Star Wars credits) -> NEG #1 -> (cross out) -> COLOR - SOUND
Star Wars super8mm Short Reel 1 Lead-out - GhostHost1969 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9etKbtfhDM
GhostHost1969 discussion : http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006532
none
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The Empire Strikes Back super8mm Reel 2 Lead-in - phoneval : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ujK4pBHyoM 
The Empire Strikes Back super8mm Reel 2 Lead-out - phoneval : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ujK4pBHyoM
THE END LUCASFILM (LTD) 1980 -> (color strips) -> (color strips with hand) -> (building) -> TAIL KEN FILMS INC. -> THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK -> PART 2 -> FCL 6S 08? 57? -> DEC 23, 1982
Interesting bits: This Ken Films super8 print is nicely labeled with the creation date of December 23rd, 1982.
none
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Krieg der Sterne super8mm - Dan van der DzBan : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VLroz4DUJY
The Imperium Schlaft Zuruck super8mm - Dan van der DzBan : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VLroz4DUJY
negative1
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negative1some frames from the end
of the red faded 35mm:
========================
later
-1
[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]
none
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Earlier in the thread, the discussion of when/why there was a change (definitely credits, maybe crawl), sometime in the first year or two after release. Here's an idea for a why.
http://adayinhollywood.tumblr.com/post/16928556714/august-3-1977-the-second-opening-of-star-wars
1977.08.03 is when they put 3po, R2 and Vader's feet into the sidewalk in front of Grauman's Chinese Theater. The above link considers this the second opening of SW at the Grauman. As this was a special day they probably wanted a perfect print for the showing. Why not use this as a possible start date for all newly printed versions to have slight updates.
This date would also make a good transition point as it coincides close to the beginning of the international release schedule. Which began 1977.08.23 in the Philippines, according to:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076759/releaseinfo
So if August 77 is the cut off date, there could be 843 prints of this early version out in circulation at some point:
http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=starwars4.htm
But as they were just lopping off the beginning and end of the film, this date could be shifted up a few weeks. If someone knows how long it took to produce a print, subtract that from the August deadline. If it is as much as a month, then that would almost cut in half the number of original version prints. ~453
msycamore
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^ It's a nice theory. We should perhaps try to contact Michael Coate over at in70mm.com about this, and perhaps ask around in Film-Tech Forum, some projectionists over there may have an answer, maybe you have done this already, none? Would also be nice to get an answer about the opening crawl, like you suggested in the other thread, send a few questions to Richard Edlund, my English isn't as good as yours though, but I might give it a try if you haven't already.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
msycamore
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none said:
Still a little confused what was shown opening day in the theaters which couldn't play the 35mm or 70mm Dolby Stereo version...
The mono engagements on opening day would just have been 35mm Dolby Stereo prints played back in mono, Dolby Stereo was and is mono compatible. Apparently 12 of the original 32 engagements on the 25th of May were presented that way.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
msycamore
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Also, this may sound weird. But can you, none, or someone else for that matter remind me why we ruled out the possibility of this revised credit roll being an '81 update.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
TServo2049
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This space for rentmsycamore, it's because both the cropped, nth-generation pre-ANH bootleg and the pre-ANH Swedish-subtitled "PuggoKrig" print have the revised credits.
msycamore
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Yeah, but there's still the possibility of mixed up reels or is there something I've missed? Ironically I noticed that I had mentioned earlier in the thread that the Dolby System logo would perhaps been a Dolby Stereo logo if it was done for the '81 release but you never know...
Anyway, hopefully we can get an definitive answer to this little mystery, none is also working on mailing Richard Edlund.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
Baronlando
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Padawan LearnerWhat about the summer 1978 re-release. It was a major, wide rerelease with a national ad campaign etc.
STAR WARS ORIGINAL TV SPOTS TRAILERS PLUS RECREATIONS 1977 - 1985 - YouTube
none
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Baronlando wrote: What about the summer 1978 re-release. It was a major, wide rerelease with a national ad campaign etc.
Early 78 would see George start up ESB work, the main SW crew would be working other jobs. Don't think you'd need many people to create the credits, so it'd definitely a possibility but i'd lean towards too late. One aspect going against this later 78 idea is the swedish 16mm print has the revised credits, Sweden's premiere was 1977.12.16. The frankenprint concept doesn't help nail anything down.
Edlund e-mails out, msycamore suggested Dan Perri: http://www.danperri.com/ so that's next.
MVerta talked to Perri at one point:
http://www.starwarslegacy.com/archive/site/pages/Legacy_1.html
msycamore
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none said:
The frankenprint concept doesn't help nail anything down.
No, but at the moment nothing does, we can only speculate until we get a definitive answer. It's just that we shouldn't be so quick to rule out the revised credits as a possible '81 revision, it is after all a time when Lucasfilm bothered to revise the opening shot of the film. We cannot narrow it down to a '77 revision based on one bootleg and one Swedish 16mm print.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
Treadwell
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Padawan Learnermsycamore said:
none said:
Still a little confused what was shown opening day in the theaters which couldn't play the 35mm or 70mm Dolby Stereo version...
The mono engagements on opening day would just have been 35mm Dolby Stereo prints played back in mono, Dolby Stereo was and is mono compatible. Apparently 12 of the original 32 engagements on the 25th of May were presented that way.
From what I've read, that was not the case in those days--that existing mono projectors could not read the stereo prints' dual optical track. That was the reason they did a mono mix in the first place.
Speaking of opening day, I thought that only 75mm houses were running the film on May 25.
msycamore
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Treadwell said:
From what I've read, that was not the case in those days--that existing mono projectors could not read the stereo prints' dual optical track. That was the reason they did a mono mix in the first place.
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure but here's how in70mm describes the issue,
Although the 35mm Dolby Stereo process was designed to be (and is) mono-compatible, at the time, those involved with the new technology were concerned about the effectiveness of mono playback from a stereo-encoded print for both technical and aesthetic reasons. For similar reasons, a decision was made not to create the mono master by means of dubbing the stereo master and "folding" the multiple tracks into one. Instead, a new dedicated mono mix was created from scratch.
Treadwell said:
Speaking of opening day, I thought that only 75mm houses were running the film on May 25.
Both 35mm Dolby and 70mm Dolby presentations was available opening day and apparently monaural and perhaps regular stereo presentations where Dolby was not yet available, here's a list on the first-week engagements: http://www.in70mm.com/news/2003/star_wars/chapters/theatres.htm
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
Treadwell
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Padawan Learnerinteresting!
msycamore
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^ Yeah, it's a great site, I should perhaps have linked to their main article: http://www.in70mm.com/news/2003/star_wars/index.htm
be sure to check it out if you haven't already, great stuff.
None, you should perhaps update the first post and add AntcuFaalb's bootleg to the list as it also contains the rare and probably original credits roll. So have the "original" credits roll only showed up in Moth3r's and AntcuFaalb's bootlegs and one 16mm print (Puggo Grande) so far?
Hope you get an answer from Mr. Edlund, none. If the Tech-prints have the revised credits roll we can finally be sure it was a revision made already in '77. The Technicolor IB prints were all made in '77, all got butchered in '81 by splicing in the revised opening crawl with Kodak film yes, but if they bothered to do the same with the end credits, I'm sure Mike Verta would easily be able to tell us.
But then again, if the Tech-prints does have the "original" I guess there's a small possibility the revised roll could still have been made sometimes later in '77 as we don't have a date for when exactly the IB prints were created. ;)
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
none
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msycamore wrote: update the first post and add AntcuFaalb's bootleg to the list as it also contains the rare and probably original credits roll. So have the "original" credits roll only showed up in Moth3r's and AntcuFaalb's bootlegs and one 16mm print (Puggo Grande) so far?
Hope you get an answer from Mr. Edlund, none.
Done and Yes. No response from Edlund and Perri, will resend as maybe it got lost in vacation time or spam filter eaten, if I don't post anything in a month or so, someone else send over a message to them as probably i'm coming across as a loon.
none
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The Empire Strikes Back 16mm Reel 1 Lead-In - Puggo Strikes Back
7 -> 6 -> 5 -> 4 -> 3 -> 2 -> [smudges] -> (circle)
The Empire Strikes Back 16mm Reel 1 Lead-Out - Puggo Strikes Back
FINISH -> C'Scope? -> PT1 (1A-2B) -> Empire Strikes Back
The Empire Strikes Back 16mm Reel 2 Lead-In - Puggo Strikes Back
7 -> 6 -> 5 -> 4 -> [color fields black, dark blue, medium blue, cyan] -> (blue) 3 -> 4 C F -> 3 -> 2
The Empire Strikes Back 16mm Reel 2 Lead-Out - Puggo Strikes Back
FINISH -> Scope? PT2 (3A-4B)
The Empire Strikes Back 16mm Reel 3 Lead-In - Puggo Strikes Back
(diamond) -> 7 -> (diamond) -> 6 -> (diamond) -> 5 -> [color fields black, dark blue, medium blue, cyan] -> (blue) 3 -> 4 -> 3
The Empire Strikes Back 16mm Reel 3 Lead-Out - Puggo Strikes Back
FINISH -> C'Scope PT3 (5A-6B) -> The Empire Strikes Back -> Dec/88 505 -> (dot) -> C ROOM (arrow) SYN -> (black dot & 'X') -> FOOT -> ACT ON -> E ROOM (arrow) SYNC -> PE -> HFC PANEL SYNC -> PICTURE - FEET
negative1
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negative1check your pm none...
will be getting you the SW 35mm spanish lpp end credits soon..
also could you add my versions to the first post for
the CED versions:
----------------------
1982 CED (Starkiller)
here's the soundtrack part:
--------------------------------------
the ratings card,
last frame:
======================
thanks!
later
-1
[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]
Credits & Leaders Thread