Warbler said:

Hey, it's jerk. said:

He's a deluded fool. Needs to start living in reality and stop imagining everyone's holding hands singing 'We are the World' 

Hey, it's jerk

Disappointed. Thought you could do better than that? :)

that is all you're worth.

Warbler said:

that is all you're worth.

I found the terrible attempt at Gabba Techno the most insulting thing. 

Hey, it's me. said:

Bingowings said:

Why would he want to?

It's like Warb saying he doesn't like wearing shoes and you saying, "try walking on white hot razor blades without shoes mug!".

It was a hypothetical suggestion that would expose how intolerant Muslim nations are to any other religion. Think about before you stand on your liberal soapbox.

Since when did two wrongs make a right? Yeah, they are extremely intolerant, so what? That means we need to one up them? Please. I prefer to take the high ground.

Warbler said:

Hey, it's me. said:

Punishments like beatings and 'stuff like that' are illegal in the good ol' US of A? They're illegal in most countries but doesn't stop them happening behind closed doors.

I when it happens behind closed doors, I would suggest that victims leave that house and go to the police.   They do not have to live like that.  

But they won't Warb. That is part of abuse and oppression. If you talk to a battered wife or girlfriend in the US, they will generally defend their abusive significant other. They'll usually excuse him saying that they really did screw up that time and probably deserved it. Most of these women will lie to cover up for their abuser, "I ran into a door knob. Again. I'm really clumsy, you know."

You can't even get modern "liberated" American women to go to the police about stuff like this. So how do you think that is going to pan out when the woman has been taught since infancy that she is inferior, that her husband is within his right to beat her on occasion, and that god and her family would turn their backs on her if she were to do something as horrific as turn her husband into the authorities of this disgusting, evil, godless society. You can pretend "she should go to the police" is a safety net that really protects her all you want, if it makes you feel better, but it doesn't change the harsh reality of these poor women and the cycle of abuse and poor self image this way of thinking forces on them.

Remember our discussion about the gang rapes in France? You have a 15 year old girl who gets gang raped by 20 guys, she can't go to her parents because they will disown her. You think she is actually going to go to the police??? If she does that her parents are sure to find out, then she is out on the street and screwed. It is messed up and backwards as can be. 

If we are letting these people into our countries, we have some obligation to protect them, educate them, and force order on them.

Wow, the maturity level this discussion is dropping to is staggering. 

I honestly work with nine year olds who toss around more grown up insults than some of your guys. Perhaps if we wanted to demonstrate our ages, we could drop the ridiculous name calling altogether?

You ol' bunch of meany poo poo heads.

Glad this sort of thing is coming to light.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1356361/Shame-Britains-Muslim-schools-Secret-Filming-shows-pupils-beaten.html

Warbler said:

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Yes they are choosing to wear it, but the reality is that some of them are being denied choice,

not in the US.   They are free to wear them or not wear them. 

Dude, seriously? How are you not understanding this? It is not rocket surgery. Yeah, legally they have the choice, but realistically, they don't have a choice. Sometimes there are psychological walls, familial restraints, or reasons of impracticality that keep us from doing things.

If she doesn't wear her burka, the US applauds her, but now she has committed a violation of expectations within her culture. Her husband could potentially leave her or disown her, or at the least retaliate for it.

But again, if it makes you happy to think that Muslim women in the US who wear burkas are doing so 100% of free will and out of their own personal desire to do so, then more power to you.

I once worked a temporary job involving a dozen Afghan women. They were all married and all wore hijabs. Only one of them spoke English, and during down time she'd try to teach me some farsi, or about Afghanistan's cuisine, and other cultural interested. We talked about the covering she would wear on her head, she admitted that it would be nice to walk around with her hair free like other women, but her husband wouldn't allow it and she would feel uncomfortably immodest. Here you have familial and cultural restraints preventing her from going into public without her hijab.

I think this Palestinian-American blogger has her thinking on the right track on the subject:

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/04/24/is-the-hijab-worth-fighting-over/in-hijab-debate-a-weak-vision-of-feminism

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Warbler said:

I when it happens behind closed doors, I would suggest that victims leave that house and go to the police.

I'm sorry, but that is an incredibly naive over-simplification, on many many levels.

well what would you suggest they do? stay in the house and continue to be beaten? 

Unless the victims of abuse go to police, there is little the police can do for them.    If they do the police here, unlike in some countries, will help them. 

CP3S said:

Wow, the maturity level this discussion is dropping to is staggering. 

I honestly work with nine year olds who toss around more grown up insults than some of your guys. Perhaps if we wanted to demonstrate our ages, we could drop the ridiculous name calling altogether?

You ol' bunch of meany poo poo heads.

*sigh* yeah.   I am sorry I went the low route.

CP3S said:

Warbler said:

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Yes they are choosing to wear it, but the reality is that some of them are being denied choice,

not in the US.   They are free to wear them or not wear them. 

Dude, seriously? How are you not understanding this? It is not rocket surgery. Yeah, legally they have the choice, but realistically, they don't have a choice.

but they do have a choice, they can go to the cops.   I know they probably won't, but that doesn't mean they don't have a choice.

CP3S said:

If she doesn't wear her burka, the US applauds her, but now she has committed a violation of expectations within her culture. Her husband could potentially leave her or disown her, or at the least retaliate for it.

But again, if it makes you happy to think that Muslim women in the US who wear burkas are doing so 100% of free will and out of their own personal desire to do so, then more power to you.

yeah, I know they are not wearing burkas out of their own free will, but does that mean women should not be able wear them out of their own free will?   Yeah, but banning burkas, you might free some women from their families oppression, but you'd be oppress other women by not allowing them to dress as they please.

Also as I said before if you banned burkas, would it really help these oppressed women?   Are their oppressive husbands going to be ok with them not wearing burkas, just because it is against the law.   I would think they would tell their wives to wear them anyway.   I think instead of freeing these women from their oppressive husbands, you'd just end up fining them or jailing them for continuing to wear the burkas.   You'd be putting the women in an impossible situation, either defy their husbands, or defy the law.   Is that what you want to do to these women?

CP3S said:

If we are letting these people into our countries, we have some obligation to protect them, educate them, and force order on them.

but we also have an obligation to give them the same freedoms and constitutional and inalienable rights that we have.

banning burkas screams of violation of the above. 

CP3S said:

 

I think this Palestinian-American blogger has her thinking on the right track on the subject:

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/04/24/is-the-hijab-worth-fighting-over/in-hijab-debate-a-weak-vision-of-feminism

and wouldn't a ban on burkas enforce the idea that women's bodies are not their own?   If their bodies are their own, then it is they alone and not the government that should decide whether or not they will wear the burkas.    

The government telling them they can't wear burkas, is just as oppressive (if not more), as their family telling them they must wear burkas. 

adywan said:

Warbler said:

and you are an idiot.

;)

 

to adywan and everyone else, I promise to stop name calling.  I hope everyone else will as well.

Hey I never look to call anyone names. But if you check back on this thread you threw the first stone Warbler. 

Hey, it's me. said:

Hey I never look to call anyone names. But if you check back on this thread you threw the first stone Warbler. 

I am not saying I didn't, I am saying I am going to stop.