Yeah, you always wonder if someone is so stupid or so smart.

Anyway, I've said already a couple of times, that the edits NEEDS to be made for much broader audience. Of course, I don't want here to complain about them, because most of them are fine and really improving the movie. They do the job well, but I'm afraid mostly only for us. There are many things which bothers us (Ewoks or fake looking enviroment in prequels), but for the general audience they are ok. Certainly there are a few things, which bothers even the general audience - Jar Jar (although, it depends, mostly on your age) or love story in AOTC.

The only one edit I would shown to non SW fans is SW:Revisited. But still, for the first time, I would go with the official DVD version (or BD in the near future). For ESB maybe I would use the theatrical reconstruction from the greatest editor of all time, ADY :).

 

As for the sister from Darth Bizzaro - well, she is certainly no SW fan, but she is not alpha and omega. I mean, showing someone SW for the first time (I know how it is, because I made that with someone from my family year ago) and seeing what reaction and comments we get, depends on with which kind of person we are watching the movie. For example, when you are watching the movies with 10 years old boy, he will certainly love Jar Jar, fall asleep during politics talks or love story. But he will love the actions sequences or Ewoks. Maybe he will hate young Anakin, I hated him when I was a boy in 99/00/01. On the other site, when you are watching it with man who is 27 years old, he will for 99% hate Jar Jar and all the "comical" scenes, but he will maybe be interested in politics (Palpatine rise to power), or Vaders sacrifice for his son or Lukes adventures. His will understand his frustration and willingness to get off from this rock.

Darth Bizarro said:

After many years, I was finally able to convince....

I think that statement is by far the most telling of the whole deal.  If someone needs years of convincing before they watch the films, they probably aren't the best example of how someone will view Star Wars for the first time.

That said;  It's still an interesting look at one person's experience as well as, to me, a perfect example of how different films move different people. I also agree with Tim that our opinions aren't the gold standard anymore than a first-time viewer's are. 

Given the changes in film technology through the decades, the changing views of the director\writer\story teller, and most importantly the culture we live in, six films spanning thirty years are going to be very different. Even when they're trying to tell parts of the same story.

They're also going to be received differently by the changing audience.  1977 was a much more innocent time.  Star Wars was a huge phenomenon because of it.  These days the technology is much more advanced and our culture is much less innocent.  We expect more, so we're harder to reach emotionally.  The films are being released to a somewhat jaded audience. If it isn't awesome, it's ridiculed mercilessly because our culture as a whole expects quite a bit more these days.  DB's sister is a very different eighteen than my generation was.  She's going to be harder to grab than my generation was at that age.

It would be just as interesting to see how someone who heard about them and thought they sounded interesting would views the films and the story.

 

An 18-year-old who thinks the Ewoks are cute and laughs at Jar Jar?  Are we sure she's not thirteen?

(cue Ziggy...)

I've never thought it was a good idea to watch Ep.4 in the context of episodes 1/2/3.  It's like watching a battle of the bands between Metallica and the Mozart String Quartet.  You just can't appreciate one while being bombarded by the other.  I'd be much more interested in someone's reaction to seeing them in the order they were made.

And it's not at all surprising that many people these days are reluctant to watch Star Wars.  The whole franchise and saga have gotten so silly that people assume the whole lot is a bunch of juvenile silliness.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

I've never thought it was a good idea to watch Ep.4 in the context of episodes 1/2/3.  It's like watching a battle of the bands between Metallica and the Mozart String Quartet.  You just can't appreciate one while being bombarded by the other.  I'd be much more interested in someone's reaction to seeing them in the order they were made.

And it's not at all surprising that many people these days are reluctant to watch Star Wars.  The whole franchise and saga have gotten so silly that people assume the whole lot is a bunch of juvenile silliness.

I've seen reactions of plenty of people who saw the original trilogy before the prequel trilogy so had it done it that way I would have expected the same result.  I wanted to see it the other way around.  So I'll have to disagree with you on that point.  

I had actually given serious consideration to showing her 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6 order but as she already know going in that Vader was Luke's father, I felt no need to avoid spoiling it for her.

It isn't that she disliked A New Hope.  I apologize if I made it sound that way.  She actually said she liked them all.  But 3, 5, and 6 were the ones that she gave the largest reaction to both during and after.

TV's Frink said:

An 18-year-old who thinks the Ewoks are cute and laughs at Jar Jar?  Are we sure she's not thirteen?

(cue Ziggy...)

WHO DARE DISTURBETH THY SLUMBER?!?

 

Um...well...I kinda like the Ewoks. :P However, I when I saw TPM I felt embarrassed watching it, because of the Jar-Jar scenes. I also got bored because I didn't care about any of the characters. Not because I found them uninteresting, but because they weren't the characters I was familiar with.

A Star Wars film without Luke? No thank you.

Darth Bizarro said:

I showed her the official DVD versions of each film.  No original theatricals.  The only excepting being that I showed her Star Wars Revisited instead of the regular special edition.

As I read this, I feel a strange sensation not unlike biting down on a piece of tinfoil.

She was largely indifferent to Episode 1.  She giggled a few times at some of Jar Jar's antics but she wanted to slap little kid Anakin.

I feel a slight pressure in the upper left corner of my skull near the back. It's not painful, not even uncomfortable, but obviously the precursor to a headache.  

During Episode II, she said she was ready to throw up during all the love scenes between Anakin and Padme.  She did really enjoy the action scenes and thought Yoda was sooooo cute when he busted out his little lightsaber.  She found 3PO's antics at the end funny.

My mouth feels a little dry and it feels like I've got a small stone stuck in my throat. I always get this feeling before I violently throw up. 

She really enjoyed Episode III although she really hated General Grievous and was extremely happy when he died.  She reacted with a really strong "Oh No!" when Anakin pulled out his lightsaber on the younglings.  She proceeded to call him a "poopie head" the rest of the movie.  She complained that the movie took way too long to end.  She reacted very emotionally to Anakin turning on Padme at the end.  At the end I asked her when she figured out Palpatine was Darth Sidous.  It was during the opera scene.  Also, during the Wookie battle she loudly proclaimed that she wanted one.

A vague pressure has settled over my temples, and the dry mouth/stone throat has returned, only less potent than before.

A New Hope didn't go as well I had hoped.  She didn't dislike it but her reaction wasn't as strong as it had been for Episode III.  When all was said and done, she said that the felt Episode IV should have been more deep considering how much more deep some of the others had been plot wise.

I hear a breeze blow over dry desert sand.

For most of Empire Strikes Back she was quite.  However, a few interesting comments came out of her mouth.  During one scene where Vader had done something particularly evil, she made the comment that she sort of felt bad for the guy.  While Leia was running around Cloud City shooting stormtroopers, she commented that Leia was a much better shot than her mother.  She reacted with genuine shock when Lando opened the door to reveal Vader sitting at the table waiting for our heroes.  Then, later on when they are walking down the hall and Lando presses a few buttons on his wrist control thingy she asked if he was doing something good or something traitorous.  Dispite having scene Episode 2, she asked me who that guy was when Boba Fett came on screen.  During the love scenes between Han and Leia she commented that this is how they should have done the love scenes with Anakin and Padme and that they weren't vomit inducing.

I am floating in the innards of a giant jellyfish.  

During the entire second half of Return of the Jedi, she couldn't stop talked about how much she loved the Ewoks and immediately wanted to go out to Toys-R-Us afterwards and get an Ewok plush.

I have gained Spider-Man's spider sense, and it is painful!

As the film started, she genuenly believed that Luke was going to fall to the dark side at the end and take Vader's place.

I am back in the jellyfish, but the lights have gone out.

Throughout the movie, she repeated shouted at the TV every time the Emperor talked.  Her complaint was that his mouth moved freaky when he talked.

David Lynch.

When Han badgers Leia about what she and Luke were just talking about, she called him a dumb ass.

Pygophilia.

While Palpatine is electroshocking Luke, she started calling out to the screen, yelling at Vader to hurry up and help him and then when he finally does she then says "Awww, hims hurt."

Angelica Pickles from Rugrats.

When ghost Anakin pops up at the end, she got excited that he was back to being "pretty Anakin."

Pastel colours, the Pink Ladies from Grease, metrosexuality, and irritation.

-Greedo Shoots First - when I first showed it to her, she couldn't tell anything was different.  When I pointed it out to her she commented that it was better the other way but wasn't really that big a deal.

I'm back in the darkened jellyfish. It's quivering, and I'm bewildered.

-CGI Jabba - she hated this scene commenting that it looked completely fake, more so than any other CGI in the rest of the films.

Order from chaos.

He main complaint was with how close Han seemed to be walking next to him.  She did admit that she liked being able to see him move around though.

Extra dimensions beyond space and time.

-Lapti Nek - She liked Jedi Rocks better because she said the sequence was more lively and amusing and enjoyed what she called "the outerspace version of Destiny's Child."

I hear Azathoth's fluters fluting.

-Original Jedi Ending - She liked the original song better than the new one but she admitted that it was a close call.

Semblance of normality.

She preferred young Anakin because she said he was prettier and it made more sense that he would revert back to the way he looked before he turned evil.

Metrosexuality. Pink lipstick. Adam Lambert.  

For her final thoughts, she said she liked The Empire Strikes Back the best.  Return of the Jedi was a close 2nd mainly because she really liked the Ewoks.  Revenge of the Sith was her 3rd favorite.  She did not assign a ranking for The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, or A New Hope.

Numerology divided by 1/2.

It was a very interesting couple of nights to say the least.  Watching the Saga with someone who has never scene them is always refreshing for the viewing experience.  I found myself apreciating things I hadn't appreciated for a while and poking fun at things that had long since started going over my head.

I am floating in black aether. A young pre-JLP Alanis Morissette is strutting around the corner of a building in a city at night.

One of the other boards on here talks about how we need to keep the prequels away from the younger generation to keep them from tainting the minds of those that haven't yet scene the original trilogy.  As if viewing the evil prequels will somehow retroactively male the original trilogy bad.  After this experience, I really don't think that's the case and while we all might have differing opinions about which films are better than others, I still think the future of fandom is in safe hands.

Satanists in black hoods. A Klansman. Yin & Yang.

I'm sure that post meant something, but I have no idea what.

It's an artistic rendering of all the emotions, sensations, thoughts, and images that came to mind as I read through Darth Bizarro's post.

Ziggy Stardust said:

I didn't care about any of the characters. Not because I found them uninteresting, but because they weren't the characters I was familiar with.

I found the Phantom characters uninteresting because, to me, they truly were uninteresting.  Most of them seemed completely pointless.  Characters for the sake of having characters on the screen, regardless of story. 

I don't remember them all, but two that really stick out are Jar Jar and the Boss Hogg copy.  In fact, that entire underwater portion of the film is where I fully realized that I wouldn't be following the last three films.  It's one of many story elements that seem like nothing more than unused ideas that never made it past sequel idea sessions - or at least shouldn't have made it passed idea stage.  I felt absolutely no connection, nor had any interest what so ever.  Lucas didn't have a story, proceeded anyway, and it shows.

 

Ziggy Stardust said:

A Star Wars film without Luke? No thank you.

I'm fine with a Star Wars story without Luke.  The Brian Daley novels are perfect examples of how a non-Luke story can work very well.  Lucas is just the wrong person to attempt it.  He's far too emotionally connected to Franchise, as opposed to good story.

 

 

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

I've never thought it was a good idea to watch Ep.4 in the context of episodes 1/2/3. 

I agree 100%.  The overall story weakness of Phantom is why I think the films should be introduced to a beginner in release order - not The Saga Of Darth Vader marketing order.  I can't imagine someone getting drawn into a story that starts off with so many uninteresting characters and plot weaknesses & inconsistencies. At times, Phantom borders on software advertisement (big colored 3D balls rolling around a giant field chasing a Roger Rabbit knock-off), not Star Wars Film.

 

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

I've never thought it was a good idea to watch Ep.4 in the context of episodes 1/2/3. 

And it's not at all surprising that many people these days are reluctant to watch Star Wars.  The whole franchise and saga have gotten so silly that people assume the whole lot is a bunch of juvenile silliness.

Absolutely agree.  Star Wars is nowhere near as respected as a film series as it was 25 years ago.  And I'm not the least bit surprised. Hell, I'm an original fan and I don't respect it.  How can I expect outsiders or newbies to respect it enough to give it a look.  Way too much bullshit to wade through.

If I were to attempt to introduce a beginner to Star Wars, Kaminski's book would be required reading ahead of time.  They would have to know the history away from the marketing spin.

If you're going to put the Jabba scene back into ANH, it only makes sense, IMO, to remove/drastically edit the Greedo scene. You can't keep the both of them as they are together without unneeded redundancy creeping in.

twooffour said:

"If I were to attempt to introduce a beginner to Star Wars, Kaminski's book would be required reading ahead of time.  They would have to know the history away from the marketing spin."

I'd say the first film holds up pretty well on its own. Just tell 'em that those few goofy CGI parts are new, and that should be enough.

PS:
Just my little opinion on the inserted Jabba scene - while it does contain redundant exposition , seems to make little sense at that place, and Solo stepping over the tail looks kinda hokey, I still like it a lot.

Sorry, I stopped reading right there.

George Lucas said: 

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

And it's not at all surprising that many people these days are reluctant to watch Star Wars.  The whole franchise and saga have gotten so silly that people assume the whole lot is a bunch of juvenile silliness.

Absolutely agree.  Star Wars is nowhere near as respected as a film series as it was 25 years ago.  And I'm not the least bit surprised. Hell, I'm an the original fan creator and I don't respect it.

twooffour said:

that one line about Jabba's intolerance for lousy smugglers is really the only "sore thumb" in the whole business.

What about Han telling Luke and co. that he needs to get going because he's rushed? Originally, it was true. Jabba was sure to be pissed when he found out that Han just blasted his messenger and then took off to god knows where. In the Special Edition version, not only is Jabba not very upset at the loss of Greedo, but also gives Han more time! He isn't "rushed" in the least! Also, IMO, it stops the flow of the film dead in it's tracks for nothing more than a lackluster CGI mess that makes the previous scene with Greedo unnecessary. ALSO it ruins the big reveal of who and what Jabba is in Jedi.